Plextor PX-708A 8X write quality and strategy.

by **OC-Freak** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:46 am

For this small test I'll use all different types of 8X capable 4X discs and use the create data disc function in CD-Speed. I'll scan the discs with two different Lite-On drives so we could look at the produced results

Plextor PX-708A, F/W 1.01, 4,38Gb.

Arita 4X DVD+R written at 8X:

Code: Select all: Media Information Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO Media code/Manufacturer ID RICOHJPNR01 Format Capacity 4.37GB(4.69GB) Free Blocks 0 Book Type DVD+R Media Type DVD+R Media Id Code Speed 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps Data area starting sector 30000h Data area end sector 22F90Fh Linear Density 0.267um/bit Track Density 0.74um/track Number of Layers 1

Full media code:

Code: Select all: 00000000 08 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 25 F9 0F .............%.. 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 52 49 43 4F 48 4A 50 4E 52 .......RICOHJPNR 00000020 30 31 02 38 23 54 37 09 00 3C 67 00 AC 62 16 18 01.8#T7..<g..b.. 00000030 0B 0B 0A 0B 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

Notice that it locked up at the end of the write process. Reading the discs do still work.

Scanned with LTC-48161H:

Scanned with LTD-165H:

Ritek 4X DVD+R written at 8X:

Code: Select all: Media Information Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO Media code/Manufacturer ID RICOHJPNR01 Format Capacity 4.37GB(4.69GB) Free Blocks 0 Book Type DVD+R Media Type DVD+R Media Id Code Speed 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps Data area starting sector 30000h Data area end sector 22F90Fh Linear Density 0.267um/bit Track Density 0.74um/track Number of Layers 1

Full media code:

Code: Select all: 00000000 08 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 25 F9 0F .............%.. 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 52 49 43 4F 48 4A 50 4E 52 .......RICOHJPNR 00000020 30 31 02 38 23 54 37 09 00 3C 67 00 AC 62 16 18 01.8#T7..<g..b.. 00000030 0B 0B 0A 0B 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

No lockups with these which is sold as ritek.

Scanned with LTC-48161H:

Scanned with LTD-165H:

Verbatim Datalifeplus 4X DVD+R written at 8X:

Code: Select all: Media Information Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO Media code/Manufacturer ID YUDEN000T01 Format Capacity Blank Free Blocks 405405696 Free Capacity 4.38GB(4.70GB) Book Type DVD+R Media Type DVD+R Media Id Code Speed 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps Linear Density Blank Disc Track Density Unknown Number of Layers 1

Full media code:

Code: Select all: 00000000 01 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 05 3F .............&.? 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 59 55 44 45 4E 30 30 30 54 .......YUDEN000T 00000020 30 31 00 38 23 54 37 10 02 4E 72 02 9C 63 16 16 01.8#T7..Nr..c.. 00000030 0B 0B 0A 0A 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

All the new batches of verbatim discs is made by TY here in Norway.

Scanned with LTC-48161H:

Scanned with LTD-165H:

Verbatim Datalifeplus 4X DVD+R written at 8X:

Code: Select all: Media Information Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO Media code/Manufacturer ID MCC 002 Format Capacity Blank Free Blocks 405405696 Free Capacity 4.38GB(4.70GB) Book Type DVD+R Media Type DVD+R Media Id Code Speed 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps Linear Density Blank Disc Track Density Unknown Number of Layers 1

Full media code:

Code: Select all: 00000000 01 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 05 3F .............&.? 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 4D 43 43 00 00 00 00 00 30 .......MCC.....0 00000020 30 32 00 38 23 54 37 13 02 4A 71 02 90 66 16 16 02.8#T7..Jq..f.. 00000030 0B 0B 0A 0A 01 1C 1E 0B 0C 12 12 01 00 00 00 00 ................

These was found in a store which had old stock.....not TY yet

Scanned with LTC-48161H:

Scanned with LTD-165H:

Notice the big quality difference between ritek and arita discs which is identified as the same discs!!
Notice how easy it's to see where the speed shifts is on the quality scans.

Seems like plextor have to improve write quality or that we have to wait for the real 8X discs.

by **aviationwiz** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:42 am

Intresting results, I never even though of doing a test like that. Very good job OC-Freak.

by **Ian** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:48 am

Those results are very different from yours aviationwiz.

by **cfitz** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:00 am

Yes, it seems that aviationwiz is the only person showing such good results from the 708A, with everyone else showing performance more on par with what we have seen from other manufacturers' DVD burners. I wonder if aviationwiz got lucky and received a rare 708A that just happens to have much better burning capability than all the rest or if his test results are innaccurate, possibly because the 163D is an older drive and doesn't report PI/PO errors correctly. I don't know.

OC-Freak, do you have a 163D lying around you can test with as well?

cfitz

by **OC-Freak** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:23 am

Yep, I do have a LTD-163D GHR8, but it will only recognize half of the discs for a reason or another....

For those discs it do recognize the scan result is almost identical to the scans from the LTD-165H (XJ-HD165H).

This project is to be continued!!

Stay tuned for results when the same discs is written at 4X and not 8X!!!!

by **VEFF** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:25 am

Nice job OC-Freak!

I would like to know how to interpret the PI/PO data - i.e. what is good, what is bad, what is average etc.
I have never really bothered with the graphs and haven't tested my discs (CDs or DVDs) often.

I do always check that a disc is readable (i.e. that burned video DVDs play without skipping on my home DVD player(s) and that the files on a data DVD are readable/accessible.

I wouldn't mind comparing some of my media, when I get some extra time.

by **OC-Freak** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:28 pm

That is the problem: we do not know yet what's good and what's average since:

-It's new tech.
-Only Lite-On + K-probe could measure PI/PO on an end user basis at least.
-Different Lite-On drives gives different results, which in many cases may be misleading.

For comparison here is a Verbatim datalifeplus 4X DVD+R made by TY written at 4X with a memorex dual-x:

by **cfitz** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:36 pm

We do know, however, what at least one specification is:

ECMA 267 standard wrote:A row of an ECC Block (see clause 18 ) that has at least 1 byte in error constitutes a PI error.

ECMA 267 standard wrote: In any 8 consecutive ECC Blocks the total number of PI errors before correction shall not exceed 280.

(see http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 6152#76152 and related links contained therein for further details)

KProbe has an option to calculate and display the sum-8 PI/PO errors. I wish everyone would use it, but unfortunately most everyone uses the default setting of sum-1. Even more unfortunately, KProbe doesn't record the actual setting used in the saved results file, so you can't tell by looking at a KProbe graph whether you are seeing sum-1, sum-8 or something else.

cfitz

by **VEFF** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:41 pm

Thanks for the clarification OC-Freak, and thanks for the info cfitz.

I guess we will probably find out by doing comparisons against different media, as you suggest.

by **tazdevl** on Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:41 pm

OC I hope you send the info to the gang @ Plex. Maybe it will help them make sense of some of the issues we're coming across.

by **OC-Freak** on Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:39 am

Yeah I do send them to plextor but they're not giving me any help...just keep getting *thanks for your feeback* mails in return. I don't know if they bring the info to the right people or just ignores my results.

For this followup I'll use the exact same discs and drive....but just write at 4X using nero 6.0.0.11.

Plextor PX-708A, F/W 1.01, 4,38Gb.

Arita 4X DVD+R written at 4X:

Code: Select all: Media Information Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO Media code/Manufacturer ID RICOHJPNR01 Format Capacity 4.37GB(4.69GB) Free Blocks 0 Book Type DVD+R Media Type DVD+R Media Id Code Speed 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps Data area starting sector 30000h Data area end sector 22F90Fh Linear Density 0.267um/bit Track Density 0.74um/track Number of Layers 1

Full media code:

Code: Select all: 00000000 08 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 25 F9 0F .............%.. 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 52 49 43 4F 48 4A 50 4E 52 .......RICOHJPNR 00000020 30 31 02 38 23 54 37 09 00 3C 67 00 AC 62 16 18 01.8#T7..<g..b.. 00000030 0B 0B 0A 0B 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

Scanned with LTC-48161H:

Scanned with LTD-165H:

Ritek 4X DVD+R written at 4X:

Code: Select all: Media Information Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO Media code/Manufacturer ID RICOHJPNR01 Format Capacity 4.37GB(4.69GB) Free Blocks 0 Book Type DVD+R Media Type DVD+R Media Id Code Speed 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps Data area starting sector 30000h Data area end sector 22F90Fh Linear Density 0.267um/bit Track Density 0.74um/track Number of Layers 1

Full media code:

Code: Select all: 00000000 08 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 25 F9 0F .............%.. 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 52 49 43 4F 48 4A 50 4E 52 .......RICOHJPNR 00000020 30 31 02 38 23 54 37 09 00 3C 67 00 AC 62 16 18 01.8#T7..<g..b.. 00000030 0B 0B 0A 0B 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

Scanned with LTC-48161H:

Scanned with LTD-165H:

Verbatim Datalifeplus 4X DVD+R written at 4X:

Code: Select all: Media Information Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO Media code/Manufacturer ID YUDEN000T01 Format Capacity Blank Free Blocks 405405696 Free Capacity 4.38GB(4.70GB) Book Type DVD+R Media Type DVD+R Media Id Code Speed 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps Linear Density Blank Disc Track Density Unknown Number of Layers 1

Full media code:

Code: Select all: 00000000 01 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 05 3F .............&.? 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 59 55 44 45 4E 30 30 30 54 .......YUDEN000T 00000020 30 31 00 38 23 54 37 10 02 4E 72 02 9C 63 16 16 01.8#T7..Nr..c.. 00000030 0B 0B 0A 0A 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

Scanned with LTC-48161H:

Scanned with LTD-165H:

Verbatim Datalifeplus 4X DVD+R written at 4X:

Code: Select all: Media Information Region information N/A not a DVD-VIDEO Media code/Manufacturer ID MCC 002 Format Capacity Blank Free Blocks 405405696 Free Capacity 4.38GB(4.70GB) Book Type DVD+R Media Type DVD+R Media Id Code Speed 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 8.0x 11080KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.4x 3324KBps Linear Density Blank Disc Track Density Unknown Number of Layers 1

Full media code:

Code: Select all: 00000000 01 02 00 00 A1 0F 02 00 00 03 00 00 00 26 05 3F .............&.? 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 4D 43 43 00 00 00 00 00 30 .......MCC.....0 00000020 30 32 00 38 23 54 37 13 02 4A 71 02 90 66 16 16 02.8#T7..Jq..f.. 00000030 0B 0B 0A 0A 01 1C 1E 0B 0C 12 12 01 00 00 00 00 ................

Scanned with LTC-48161H:

Scanned with LTD-165H:

Notice the big difference between the LTC-48161H and LTD-165H scans.....

Write quality is still not as good as from the Pioneer 106/A06 (memorex dual-x).

by **Halc** on Thu Sep 25, 2003 3:37 pm

I don't know if I should be alarmed or not, but with a quick glance it looks like all of the DVD+R burns scanned and posted to this thread are out of spec.

Yes, they might work, but out of spec (either PI consecutive sum or PO block error rate) nevertheless.

I just received my Plextor PX-708a (TLA001, Made in China) today, but lack a LiteOn dvd-rom drive so cannot contribute yet.

Keep those posts coming and I'd also recommend the 8 consecutive PI blocks sum setting that cfitz proposed.

regards,
Halcyon

by **OC-Freak** on Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:06 am

Problem is that I won't do 8 ECC PI/PO SUM unless everybody else does it as I want the scans to be comparable.

Yes, they're all out of specs....

by **Ian** on Fri Sep 26, 2003 9:24 pm

Stupid question. How do you set it to 8 ECC PI/PO SUM? I looked the other day, and it wasn't obvious to me.

by **cfitz** on Fri Sep 26, 2003 9:48 pm

Ian wrote:Stupid question. How do you set it to 8 ECC PI/PO SUM? I looked the other day, and it wasn't obvious to me.

I was the same way. It was staring me right in the face but I didn't even see it. I actually asked Karr if he could implement it, and he pointed out that he already had:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 6179#76179

(see the second and third screen shots)

cfitz

by **Ian** on Sun Sep 28, 2003 8:46 pm

Duh.. yeah, I'm blind.

by **Halc** on Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:18 am

Now that Karr isn't reading anymore, this is useless, but I forgot to ask him to implement separate PI and PO sum counters.

That way we could have monitored consecutive 8 block PI sum and PO per block count with one scan.

Now one has to do two scans to get PI sum limit for DVD and PO limit for DVD+R. Ah well, can't have it all :)

regards,
Halcyon

Plextor PX-708A 8X write quality and strategy.

Plextor PX-708A 8X write quality and strategy.

4X writespeed followup

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