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Anybody read Anand's review of the LG 4120b?

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Anybody read Anand's review of the LG 4120b?

Postby Gooberslot on Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:51 am

I know the review wasn't the best in the world but this drive didn't look too good to me. Especially bad was how the Plextor had trouble reading discs burnt on the LG.
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Re: Anybody read Anand's review of the LG 4120b?

Postby Kennyshin on Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:05 am

Gooberslot wrote:I know the review wasn't the best in the world but this drive didn't look too good to me. Especially bad was how the Plextor had trouble reading discs burnt on the LG.


Yeah, Plextor is the best in the world and LG's latest burner is a poor drive because Plextor does not like it.

The review doesn't even show recording results with TY 02 and Ricoh 02 media when they are the only two media known to work at 12x speed.

The review doesn't show DVD+R DL and DVD-RAM 5x tests and they say they have reviewed it.

Am I blind or is there really no 12x write test there at all?

Instead of calling a GSA-4120B review, Anandtech better put the page inside Plextor PX-712S review or Verbatim MCC 03 review.
Last edited by Kennyshin on Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ian on Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:14 pm

Anand's reviewer probably should have talked to LG about the problems he was having before posting his less than favorable review. At least give them a chance to fix the problems he was having with a new drive, etc. As most of you know, I've had 4120 here for more than a month and have not had the problems he reported.

Yes, media is also an issue, but the Plextor is just as picky about what media it will write to at 12x.
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Postby Kennyshin on Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:15 pm

My post above seems too harsh reading back now. The review just seemed biased to me at first though I still think it is. I apologize to Anandtech and the people involved in publishing the 4120B review. I generally prefer Anandtech to any other very big (general) PC hardware rewview sites.
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Postby aviationwiz on Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:19 pm

I wouldn't say it's a biased review, I'd just say that AnandTech makes crappy Optical Drive reviews.
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Postby Kennyshin on Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:34 pm

aviationwiz wrote:I wouldn't say it's a biased review, I'd just say that AnandTech makes crappy Optical Drive reviews.


What about the Verbatim 8x DVD+R and CD-R tests? :D

Why do those tests at all if no test on 12x DVD+R and 5x DVD-RAM is being done?

And why compare it with Plextor from Plextor's point of view?
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Postby Gooberslot on Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:08 pm

While Anand's review wasn't very good(no TY media!?) I didn't see it as biased. They weren't trying to prove that the Plextor was a better drive they were just using it to see if the burns from the LG would play back on a different drive which IMO is a very good test to do that other sites should copy. And the most likely reason they chose the Plextor for the read tests is because they thought the Plextor was the best. If they really wanted to show the LG in a bad light they'd have chosen a known bad reader like the Nec. Unless the Plextor has a reading problem(does it?) I don't see how this review is biased. A good burn should read without problems on any drive, even picky ones.

About the tests themselves. I know Ritek isn't the best media but I was very disappointed to see that it had C2 errors. I don't think it's that crappy. Also, it's disappointing that LG still seems to have problems on the MCC03 media just like the 4082b and I'm not sure what was up with the Mitsubishi -R media. Overall pretty poor results unless you want to accuse Anandtech of deliberately choosing media that did bad on the LG.

Why do those tests at all if no test on 12x DVD+R and 5x DVD-RAM is being done?


I don't know why they didn't test 12x DVD+R but they probably didn't test 5x DVD-RAM because it's very hard to come by and they probably didn't have any.

OK, I admit there is one thing fishy about this review. Why at the bottom of the page due they mention write descriptors for a bunch of different media but don't perform any tests for those media. That's kinda odd.
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Postby Kennyshin on Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:23 am

Time will tell as more users try. :wink:
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Postby dr_st on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:50 pm

Gooberslot wrote:They weren't trying to prove that the Plextor was a better drive they were just using it to see if the burns from the LG would play back on a different drive which IMO is a very good test to do that other sites should copy. And the most likely reason they chose the Plextor for the read tests is because they thought the Plextor was the best. If they really wanted to show the LG in a bad light they'd have chosen a known bad reader like the Nec.


To the contrary. When Drive A cannot read disks made by Drive B, you can make two conclusions: Drive A is a bad reader or Drive B is a bad writer. If they had used a known bad reader, everyone would have blamed it on the reader, whereas by using a drive that is considered good (Plextor) they might lead people to the conclusion that the LG is a bad writer (because everyone knows that Plextor is a good reader, no?) The question is whether this is the right conclusion.
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Postby Gooberslot on Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:48 pm

To the contrary. When Drive A cannot read disks made by Drive B, you can make two conclusions: Drive A is a bad reader or Drive B is a bad writer. If they had used a known bad reader, everyone would have blamed it on the reader, whereas by using a drive that is considered good (Plextor) they might lead people to the conclusion that the LG is a bad writer (because everyone knows that Plextor is a good reader, no?) The question is whether this is the right conclusion.


Seems like the right conclusion to me. When a good reader can't read a disc then the only explanation I can see is that the disc is bad. To me a good burn should be able to be read on any reader, even a picky one like the Nec. When it fails on a reader that doesn't normally have problems then something is seriously wrong, unless there is a known compatibility problem like some old stand alones and DVD+R.

BTW, I'd just like to point out that I haven't read any Plextor reviews so I have no idea how good or bad a reader it is.
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Postby dr_st on Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:35 am

Seems like the right conclusion to me. When a good reader can't read a disc then the only explanation I can see is that the disc is bad. To me a good burn should be able to be read on any reader, even a picky one like the Nec. When it fails on a reader that doesn't normally have problems then something is seriously wrong, unless there is a known compatibility problem like some old stand alones and DVD+R.


You missed my point which was that Plextor being a good reader should not be taken as a given. Also, I disagree that when a burned disk cannot be read it's always the fault of the recorder.

From their review it wasn't clear if they tried to read the burned disks on the LG itself, and if so, what were the results.
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Postby shimman on Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:44 am

fyi, 712a is not a good dvd reader; it maybe is a fast reader but not very compatable. many disks burnt with 107d & 812s were not be read with 712a even though 2500a, 812s & 107d did read them without problems.

interesting thing is that there seems to be hacked firmware for 4120b enabling booktype change. i thought unable to change the booktype was the weakest point of 4120b

even if lg does not stand out for writing quality or speed, remember lg drives are the super multi supporting all dvd formats but cartridged dvd ram disks. no one can claim that & for that, average performance can be forgiven not that it is not a great burner :wink:
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Postby Gooberslot on Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:57 am

dr_st wrote:You missed my point which was that Plextor being a good reader should not be taken as a given. Also, I disagree that when a burned disk cannot be read it's always the fault of the recorder.


What other explanation is there?

From their review it wasn't clear if they tried to read the burned disks on the LG itself, and if so, what were the results.


Reread the review. They tested each disc on the LG and the Plextor. I believe in one case the LG had trouble reading it's own disc.

fyi, 712a is not a good dvd reader; it maybe is a fast reader but not very compatable. many disks burnt with 107d & 812s were not be read with 712a even though 2500a, 812s & 107d did read them without problems.


Is this first hand experience? I checked the DVD error correction test on CDR-Info and according to those tests it looks like an ok reader but not wonderful. Maybe it is a bad reader but IMO a really good burn should still be readable on even a picky reader.
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Postby Kennyshin on Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:48 am

Well, one of the first reviewers of GSA-4120B was telling all that GSA-4120B has only one competitor in recording quality from his experiences: Pioneer DVR-A06. Quite the opposite conclusion from the Anandtech review.

I just said time will tell since it is likely that this is going to be another nonsense discussion regarding Plextor brand names and all kinds of bias.

Japanese and German reviews of GSA-4120B will also become available. Most of us are not in any hurry.

GSA-4120B is a PX-712A killer, that's my conclusion. Whether I say so or not, there are millions of buyers and tens of thousands of distributors in the world. Right now, PX-712A is 2x as expensive as GSA-4120B in Tokyo.
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Postby Kennyshin on Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:50 am

shimman wrote:
interesting thing is that there seems to be hacked firmware for 4120b enabling booktype change. i thought unable to change the booktype was the weakest point of 4120b




What do you mean by hacked firmware for 4120B?
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Postby Gooberslot on Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:25 pm

GSA-4120B is a PX-712A killer, that's my conclusion. Whether I say so or not, there are millions of buyers and tens of thousands of distributors in the world. Right now, PX-712A is 2x as expensive as GSA-4120B in Tokyo.

What does the amount of buyers have to do with anything? People buy crap all the time. Just look at how many people have bought a Geforce 5200 card. :)
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Postby Kennyshin on Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:11 pm

Gooberslot wrote:
GSA-4120B is a PX-712A killer, that's my conclusion. Whether I say so or not, there are millions of buyers and tens of thousands of distributors in the world. Right now, PX-712A is 2x as expensive as GSA-4120B in Tokyo.

What does the amount of buyers have to do with anything? People buy crap all the time. Just look at how many people have bought a Geforce 5200 card. :)


Yeah, you are worth Plextor, and the rest of the humanity will be still happy with LG which does not have anything to do with your view of reality, I guess. :D

PX-712A is ridiculously expensive because it is Plextor and Plextor is the worst choice for anyone seriously pursuing for the most out of the least and that does not have to do with anything about performance. GSA-4120B is inexpensive because it is intended to be used by millions of end users all around the world from China to Brazil which does prove at least there are a lot more people to appreciate and criticize its advantages and disadvantages.

Plextor should have gone out of business long ago if there were less number of people ready to spend anything on brand names than on real things.

It's been quite long since I last spoke some honest opinion. :D
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Postby aviationwiz on Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:17 pm

NEWS ALERT: People Pay for Quality

Plextor should have gone out of business long ago if there were less number of people ready to spend anything on brand names than on real things.


Umm, LG is a much wider known brand name than Plextor, :lol:

Plextor is so well known for only making optical drives because of thier excellent performance.
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Postby Gooberslot on Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:16 pm

Kennyshin, I think you're confusing me for a Plextor fanboy. From what little I've read about the Plextor it seems overpriced for what you get. I have no loyalty to any brand.

Yeah, you are worth Plextor, and the rest of the humanity will be still happy with LG which does not have anything to do with your view of reality, I guess.

And I truly think this was uncalled for.
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Postby generaljan on Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:07 am

Guys, today i had luck. I went to the cheapest discount market and bourght two packages of cheap DVD+R x8 for my LG GSA-4120b.
I just took a look with the DVD Identifier and ist says 12x Recording possible. If it works i will post some pics today!
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Postby MediumRare on Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:22 am

generaljan wrote:the cheapest discount market

Which one is that? What brand did you get and what's the media code?

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Postby generaljan on Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:11 am

They look like this http://www.mediamatch.de/detaildvd.php?ID=2081
but they are certified for 8x recording and the media code is also different.
the ones i bourght are RICOHJPNR02. I did not know that these media were used for this Tevion Disk.
Pictures can be found here (these last 4 pics are the from the Ricoh )
http://mitglied.lycos.de/generaljan/
The burned disk was pefectly readable even in my Pioneer that officially does not support +R/RW. IF the LG has a bad writing quality i couldn´t read the disk in the pioneer.
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Postby MediumRare on Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:42 am

generaljan wrote:the ones i bourght are RICOHJPNR02. I did not know that these media were used for this Tevion Disk.

That's good to know! I should have known you were talking about Aldi :oops: (thinking too much in terms of tech stores).

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Postby Kennyshin on Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:32 pm

generaljan wrote:They look like this http://www.mediamatch.de/detaildvd.php?ID=2081
but they are certified for 8x recording and the media code is also different.
the ones i bourght are RICOHJPNR02. I did not know that these media were used for this Tevion Disk.
Pictures can be found here (these last 4 pics are the from the Ricoh )
http://mitglied.lycos.de/generaljan/
The burned disk was pefectly readable even in my Pioneer that officially does not support +R/RW. IF the LG has a bad writing quality i couldn´t read the disk in the pioneer.


CDFreaks forum has a thread about "Platinum" 8x DVD+R. There were CMC-made Platinum 8x DVD+R and others with ricohjpnr02. Hopefully, your new media will be alright at 12x.
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Postby Kennyshin on Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:51 pm

aviationwiz wrote:NEWS ALERT: People Pay for Quality

Plextor should have gone out of business long ago if there were less number of people ready to spend anything on brand names than on real things.


Umm, LG is a much wider known brand name than Plextor, :lol:

Plextor is so well known for only making optical drives because of thier excellent performance.


Stop being silly. Plextor is known to a very limited number of consumers because Plextor is tiny compared to Sony, LG, Matsushita, Mitsubishi. Even if some more people ever heard of the name Plextor, most consumers don't care regardless of the quality differences insisted by some.

Now, quality and performances are often subjective. You just want to look at the better sides of Plextor and want to believe that it is worth your money. That is alright as long as you have the money to buy Plextor but for the rest of the people, Plextor is not good enough for the premium price. GSA-4120B just offers a lot more than PX-712A, not at higher prices but lower.

I have both GSA-4082B and PX-708A. I do not think PX-708A was worth the money I paid, which was over US$300. Recently, I've been using GSA-4082B because of quality, not the other one. Since it is relatively much easier for me to have all kinds of the latest IT products that are available to the mass and to the enthusiasts, I usually choose what works, rather than what is cheap.

You pay for names, like Samsung's president who are now riding a Benz Maybach 62 for which he readily paid about US$1,000,000. He went to KOEX in Seoul on 18 and his car was hit by a Hyundai Avante on the side door while the son of the Avante's driver was opening the door.
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