True or False: Nero 5.x Rocks...

[Boone]

Give me an example where another burning app does something better than Nero 5.x does it. Seriously, spend a few minutes and see if you can think of anything.

[Han]

No problem. You must admit Nero has the most useless File Browser aroud. You can't even see all tracks on a mixed mode CD. Not to mention it does not display CD-Text info on audio tracks + there's no sorting capabilities.
WinOnCD, on the other hand, does all this brilliantly! <IMG SRC="http://www.cdrlabs.com/ubb/static/smile.gif">

[Ian]

Yeah I agree.. the mixed mode stuff has been my biggest beef with both Nero and EZ CD 4 (I don't know if it was fixed in 5). What we can do is pass the info on to ahead though and hope that they listen.

We're planning on doing a look at WinOnCD too. WinOnCD has been overlooked for way to long in the US. Damn Roxio.. pushing that EZ CD stuff..

[Han]

Therefore Nero 5.5 should not be graded 10/10, don't you think? Some time ago I've contaced Ahead's engineers about all that, but until now nothing has changed. <IMG SRC="http://www.cdrlabs.com/ubb/static/frown.gif">

[Ian]

Han I'm going to make a list of suggestions and send them to our contact at ahead. Where exactly do you want the sorting?

In the File Browser itself? It has Name, Size, Type, Modified.. etc already like in Explorer. Or in the Audio and ISO creation windows? These are the ones missing the sorting.

As far as it being a 10/10 that was up to the reviewer and we all have our own opinions. I specifically gave it a 9/10 for performance because it was not the fastest in all tests. That was the only section I worked on.

Boone and the others might be able to shed some light on their reasons. I can't speak for them.

[Han]

I'd like sorting especially in File Browser, but I also wouldn't mind it in creation windows. Then I'd like to see the exact display of all tracks in File Browser. Audio tracks should be seen with CD-Text and when you drag them to creation window, CD-Text should be automatically trasferred (as is for MP3s which contain ID3). It would be nice to have a special CD-Text editor window for editing the data for all audio tracks. I also miss the exact time and data display near the bottom bar which shows only the approximate size of data to be recorded.
You should really take a look at WinOnCD Power Edition, since it's a very powerful and easy to use application, definitely much better than Easy CD Creator. Unfortunately it looks like Roxio is willing to trade it only in Europe, at least the latest version 3.8.

[Ian]

Yeah I have a copy of WinOnCD 3.8 (in english) finally and I've been playing with it.

Keep the suggestions coming.. ahead has been asking for suggestions... well we have some here. More! more!

[Boone]

Ok, I'll bite. I don't have Nero 5.0.44 installed anymore, but I _can_ sort in 5.5. I'm not sure when it was added, but I can sort in File Browser by name, size, type, last modified, and attribute. The thing is a clone for explorer.

I'll admit, I didn't take a look at any CD-TEXT stuff. You'd think that the text attributes would follow the track around, but apparently it doesn't. Ian can give ahead software heads up to that. Keep in mind that MP3 has specific ID3 tags for that information; wave files do not. So, if you drag some tracks over from a CD but make the intermediate .wav file transfer, that CD-TEXT stuff is gone. I'll assume for now that you mean dragging the track directly from the Browser directly to the Audio creation window.

You'd it wouldn't be hard to show you exactly how much stuff you've got slated to be written to the disc. I guess I've never felt the need for it since they already show you the maximums. Besides, they've already got it calculated under the Write CD dialog in the Info tab. But, I suppose if you're wondering if you can fit that last 588 byte text file on a back up disc, it could come in handy.

To be fair, the reason you say it shouldn't have gotten 10/10 is the CD-TEXT. Actually, if you average the numbers it comes out to 9.75, but our page rounds to the nearest whole number. Such is life I guess. Anyway, looking over their features, they do so many things perfectly. Would it be fair to subtract 10% of their features score (or even 10% of their overall score) for that? Just looking at their new options for 5.5 I'd have a *really* hard time trying to justify that. They aren't just cobbled in options either. They took the time to do it right.

Ian said above we've finally got a copy of WinOnCD, but that's a nifty import since our only other "suite" option on this side of the pond is Easy CD Creator, and without getting into specifics, I've never really been too keen on it. But that's just me.

Remember, we're not trying to shove a load of crap down your throat, if you believe WinOnCD (or anything else) deserves more props on cdrlabs, we'd welcome you to attempt a review in the same style that we do ours. Then we could proof-read/edit it for publication, and you'd have your very own review on our small site. <IMG SRC="http://www.cdrlabs.com/ubb/static/smile.gif">

[Ian]

What Han means is sort in the actual CD layout. I can sort fine in the explorer but once you drop it in your CD you can't sort anymore. Oh well.

I have a few CD's here with CD-TEXT.. I'm going to do some more testing with that. We will be looking at Nero 5.5 again when we get the final build thats available to the public and may rescore it then.

As far as WinOnCD.. Adaptec/Roxio has been less than helpful when acquiring software. WinOnCD is not even available in the stores here... you can't even get it with a drive. EZ CD is everywhere.. and as it is if we want a copy of that we have to plop down a fat $100 for a program we really don't use.

Go figure.. I'm making my list, checking it twice.. and will send it to ahead an hopefully they won't be naughty but nice. (I need sleep)

[Han]

Boone, please, don't bite <IMG SRC="http://www.cdrlabs.com/ubb/static/wink.gif">. Ahead's staff told me that Nero's File Browser is actually based on MS Windows Explorer. So I asked them to reprogram it or make their own. (Let's see - yep, this was a year and a half ago. Hmmm...)

Ok, I'll list some more things that bother me _a little_: Why does Nero set the date 1.1.1985 and time 0:00 inside folders? You can see that in Windows Commander file manager for instance - when you enter the folder, there are this date and time on top of the file list. This feature applies also to "forced" Date and Time settings for files, which doesn't set the same date and time for the above mentioned, too.

I don't know exactly when the following started (version 5.0.?.?), but it's quite annoying. My reader is Teac CD-540E, capable of 4x audio extraction for first inner track and 10x for outermost (firmware 1.0A). If I try to copy mixed mode CD at 6x speed, Nero for some unknown reason locks the drive's speed to 4x after it detects audio tracks on a CD. So, if I forget to set the recording speed to 4x, buffer underrun occurs. Sometimes this happens also when copying Mode 2 CDs...

If I enter CD-Copy Compilation and click on "CD Info" button, Nero does not display CD-Text in CD-540E. It shows it only if I insert the CD in my Teac CD-R58S and select "CD-Info..." or "Save/View Track..." from the CD-Recorder menu. Time to update CD Reader dBase capabilities?

Please, don't get me wrong. I like Nero! Especially for it's overburnig capabilities, clean and fast interface and simple Feurio's Cover Editor. I hope the new ahead's one has some more editing and font features. (Btw, WinOnCD's cover editor is catastrophic.)

Regarding Nero review: I think you've made some premature conclusions that lack the acquaintance of other burning software features and capabilities. Your hardware reviews are on the other hand based on quite a wide knowledge and comparison of other brands! It's quite obvious Nero wants to be the best all-in-one burning program, but in some areas it's competition has better solutions and offers more.

About WinOnCD: I think you'd make a better review. I'm not that well familiar with your style, since I started visiting your site only recently. Plus my english isn't that good. But if you like, you can send me the review before you publish it and I'll take a look if you've missed something important...

Oh, please apply a Service Pack 1 for WinOnCD PE 3.8 - it corrects some issues and the program is more stable.
Here's the link: <A HREF="http://www.roxio.de/german/support/list_servicepacks_g.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.roxio.de/german/support/list_servicepacks_g.html</A>

[This message has been edited by Han (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Boone]

What Ian means by "Roxio has been less than helpful" is "they have no marketing presence for people other than retailers and OEMs".

And yeah, I can tell you right now that my software experience is limited to old-school Prassi, Easy CD, Nero, CDRWin, Fireburner, and maybe one or 2 more. I've never even seen a screen shot of WinOnCD because, and I'll tell you again, I'm in North America. We'd like to be more global, but for now we're cdrlabs.COM, not .CO.UK or .DE or whatever. Maybe there's something better... but not in the US. I'll save up some money and fly to germany to pick it up.

You're asking me to compare my Silverado pickup with whatever utility vehicles they make in Europe. All we can do is compare software available in the US right now. Are you recommending we get into the business of pirating european software? Cuz that's not gonna happen.

[Ian]

OK guys.. settle down.

Han I've seen some stuff about WinOnCD 3.8 (no PE). Whats the difference between it and the PE (Power Edition)??

[Han]

Boone, I didn't mean to offend you. You did a really decent review of Nero! I've read it again and taking in consideration the availability of CD Recording software in the US, it's well presented. Thank you!

Let's stick to the purpose of this topic. I've just remembered on more thing I dislike in Nero: after a fresh install of the program you are forced into one simulation before Nero allows you to physically record the disc. Can't this be avoided somehow? Can't Nero just ask you if you're sure you want to skip the simulation? (If you first choose to record at 4x and then switch to 8x, you are forced into another simulation. Uhhh!)

The Power Edition of WinOnCD has in general more options, i.e. it does CD-Text, has more audio filters... I don't know all the differences, sorry.

[Ian]

I never run the simulation. After installing Nero and before I write I just unclick that option. Never get prompted.

Wow this is the most active this forum has been.. finally people are using it. <IMG SRC="http://www.cdrlabs.com/ubb/static/smile.gif">

[Han]

Huh, I forgot to mention that this "forced" simulation applies to CD-Copy. Unchecking it before first burn doesn't help...

[Boone]

Han's right, it's a forced simulation. They want to verify that everything can keep up and what not.. ugh. I wonder if it's different if the burner has burnproof/justlink? I wonder if Nero makes the distinction?

The 1 forced sim is Nero's way of helping people who'd blame Nero first if their CD got screwed up, I guess... idiot proofing.

Nero allows you to write CD-TEXT as well. You can customize all of the fields.

Haven't played with the audio filters a lot... Generally when I capture stuff from tape and burn to CD I just do it straight through. I think Audio filters are more of a way to help cover for a CD-ROM that can't do DAE very well.. lots of noise, etc.

[Han]

Regarding audio filters I had in mind also some environmental effects, crossfadings etc. It's fun at first, but in most cases you don't need this stuff.

As I said before, I miss a small CD-Text editor window where all the tracks are listed. It's not very convenient to double click or alt-enter each track separately to input title and artist...

[Han]

Are you still reporting stuff to Ahead? They haven't change some Help issues for a long time. This is from Help / Registration Info...

"Nero 4.0 allows you now to register online."

I was very excited when I heard about all new Cover Designer. It sure has some nice features, but it doesn't seem very user friendly. When you clicked on old Feurio's "plug-in" Cover Editor, the cover was ready to be printed. Now you have to tweak with too many details and bother with hard-to-find settings. Hmmm...

[This message has been edited by Han (edited 03-12-2001).]

[Ian]

Yes Han.. we still are.

I sent your other comments in along with a few bugs we found.

[InTheWayBoy]

Nero rocks...I've been using it since 4.x and even those still kick Cradaptec Sleazy CD Destroyer NERO!

[JANK]

Gotta agree with the last poster - Nero rules. The points mentioned above about not being able to manipulate the files to be recorded is a slight hassle. My workaround is to sort 'em in the file exporer before I drag them across. Slight bother but NOT killer. How's the Wave Editor? - so far I am sticking with CoolEdit but I did find Nero was able to convert some unreadable RAW MP3s in WAVs that CoolEdit only saw as noise.

[Kyriakos]

Guys believe me, WinOnCD is the King. Powerful, intuitive, bug free,works like a charm. It is a shame that Roxio bought it just for killing it in favor of the Easy CD Creator. It was Plextor's OEM software and they knew what they were doing. But due to Roxio's attitude Plextor has abandoned it starting with their new drives 24/10. Shame to Roxio that "drowns" such a beauty instead of upgrading and enhancing it.
Go here and vote for WinOnCD to be upgraded
http://www.cdrwcentral.com/

[NuGuy]

OK you Rockers - So how is Nero when it comes to backing up your HDD? Adequate? Its documentation says it copies sectors (vs. files), and contains all sorts of warnings, precautions, etc. Any major problems, something to warrent not using it at all? Thanks.

[clumzy_oaf]

Hey there...

Ian... suggestion box entry please:
The ability to be told that the file names are too long BEFORE hiting the "write cd" button. Unfortunatly I found being told about someting before "just before go" was much more managable than otherwise.


In regards to which is better, I've only exp with Nero 5.5.5.1 and EasyCD 4+5b, and I'll add that it would kinda depend on the users confidance level.

For friends I know prefer having better control of the situation(ie-more options) as well as the aptitude to understand/deal with consiquences ok (eg bad disk)I whole heartedly PUSH for them to try Nero.
Where as those friends whom have a bit less technical exposure as well as, more often than not, the predisposition of "I just want it to work" I tend to suggest EasyCD. It has nice big buttons for them to still miss
Less options usually means easier, which is wonderful for those out there with the "just work" mentality.

On the technical side, Nero by nature is bound to be more up-to-date than EasyCD in regards to the hardware recognition/appreciation aspect. Truly could you imagine a rather novice keeping up with a release rate Nero maintains when they only use the prog once in a while? Heck most the people I've seen in this class don't even try to keep their virus deinitions up-to-date. [WE] all know how quickly those get released, though some out there don't think or care, install and "just work".

Appologies, constant rants.

ps, on a test run of Easycd 5 Platinum (beta) my particular burner (LiteOn 24102b)wasn't recognized/valid. Dont know about the retail, or any updates on that problem, I dropped the whole ideal as soon as that arose.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: clumzy_oaf on 2001-12-07 09:49 ]</font>