Pioneer demonstrates dual layer burning capacity on A06

[Noua]

Well, here it is.

"Pioneer demonstrated dual layer DVD-R writing (at 2x) using modified DVR-A06 at CES.
They demonstrated it by putting 100Mb of video on each layer (200mb total) and having it run on a standalone DVD Player (Pioneer DV464). they made chapter 1-3 on layer 0 and 4-6 on layer 1 and demonstrated rapid switch between layers. They said although dual layer DVD-R format isn't finalized it should be playable on most standalone DVD players and DVD-Rom drives already in circulation.

Interesting part in all this is, the A06 unit they used was only modified via firmware, they claim no hardware change was made from regular A06. Also they have no plans to release modified firmware, yet."


This is a good motivation for firmware patchers, now that we know that it's possible...

For anyone that knows Japonese you can click here , others like me can just see the pictures and give it a thought...

On the other side, DVD Alliance already demonstrated dual-layer DVD+R capacity. You can click here to find out a little bit more...

For me this means that I'm keeping my A06 for a little bit longer...

[VEFF]

Wow!
No hardware modification to get an A06 to burn dual layer?

It would be great if the PX-708A (and other DVD burners) could be upgraded via firmware to do this.
I would love to keep mine for several more years...

[Noua]

You wish!!!!!!!....

[Kennyshin]

Source: http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/ ... /ces06.htm

[Kennyshin]

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/ ... /ces06.htm

Babelfished:

Demonstration of 2 layer record of DVD-R which used pioneer and A06


The booth of RWPPI

In 2003 October, the pioneer which succeeds in the development of 2 layer record technology of DVD-R does the demonstration which plays back the DVD-R disk of 2 layer which was drawn up with the booth of the same company, with the usual DVD player. In addition, RW products promotion initiative (RWPPI) with the booth, it displayed the drive whose 2 layer entry is possible, demonstrated to playback from entry.

As for the drive which is used for entry "DVR-A06" of the same company. You say that with same ones as the commercial item, by the fact that just the firmware is modified in individual ones, without remodelling mechanism and the like inside, 2 layer record is possible. Furthermore, 2 layer record is not decided yet with the forum, there is no schedule and the like of release of the firmware.

With demonstration the data of 100MB in the layer is written 0 and the layer 1 respectively. At that time, entry to of the layer 0 ending, when you look at the record aspect of the disk, just the data quantity color of the track/truck has changed. After that, entry to of the layer 1 ending, there is no change in the range of the track/truck which changes color. From this, the layer 0 repeating to 1, it is found that you write. Furthermore, recording rate has reached 2 times.

With demonstration drawing up 6 chapters. 1 - 3 in layer 0, 4 - 6 layer 1. By the fact that chapter is selected, it can look at the optional layer. Furthermore, as for the DVD-R disk of 2 layer which was drawn up, in the player of the pioneer usual DVD video in the same way viewing possibility. "In the player of the other manufacturer you do not verify to the fact that standard is not decided partly due,, but you say that it can play back with most players without problem,".

[RJW]

Well Pioneer promised that they would try to get it fixed for there old drives with just a firmware update.
No new drive was the original idea.
This is also the main reason why Pioneers sollution took more time as the DVD+R sollution.

Also based on the sollution Mitsubishi and Philips use it would be quite hard to let it work on a 4x drive. So I wonder what miracle Pioneer has come up with. Still it does show that -R format is still there.

Can't wait to add the support to my nice Pioneer 106D and really hope that the final version of the format still means that it can be done with a simple flash.

Now that Pioneer has shown there step it might be interresting what Philips and Benq will do. Since now that it seems that the -R community has a sollution which means no new drive. Philips/Benq might try a little harder to see if there old 8x DVD+R recorder can't do the same.

[Kennyshin]

Now that Pioneer has shown there step it might be interresting what Philips and Benq will do. Since now that it seems that the -R community has a sollution which means no new drive. Philips/Benq might try a little harder to see if there old 8x DVD+R recorder can't do the same.

2.0x vs. 2.4x again, just like in 2001 and 2002 with A03/A04 and MP5120A/5125A.

It will take approximately one hour to completely record onto a blank dual-layer DVD-R disk. A little less than that to a blank dual-layer DVD+R disk. People will cry for faster writing speeds.

[RJW]

Yes but the difference is that Pioneer intends a firmware sollution while the +r camp intends selling of another drive.
If Pioneer a06 can burn these at 2x and it is based on 2 different lasers fine tuned for laser power, then there is a good change that Pioneer 8x burner the a07 could soon support 4x.
However how much fine tuneing did they do and what margin is still left ?

[gceusa]

Will Pioneer include a firmware update for the OEM model (106), or is this just for the retail model.

[Kennyshin]

Will Pioneer include a firmware update for the OEM model (106), or is this just for the retail model.

Pioneer sells millions of OEM DVD writers in just half a year so I expect the company will also provide firmware updates for OEM models like DVR-106.

[Noua]

Like I stated on a previous post, it has began...

I think we mustn't be too much enthusiastic... We must keep it cool.
Nevertheless this is a huge improvement and to know that our 106/A06 has the capibility to do dual layer burning it's really great because, like what happened to the NEC 1100=1300, sooner or later we will get the update... My question is, will we get a free update (obviously released by pionner) and in this case it will be as soon as everything is aproved. Or do we have to wait for someone to come up with the update?

Nevertheless I don't believe that will see anything before summer cause fo start there wont be any media available soon and there is the standards aprovell issue...

Anyway, a year ago i was looking to the first 4x dual burners to come out (Sony was the first one) and after 2-3 months of no news at all, they started to come out everyweek. It happened the same with 8x burners (first Plextor in September, then the rest in mid October). It will be the same here... Phillips has announced that in mid spring they will put in the shelves the first dual layer burner. Will DVD forum allow DVD alliance to go a step forward? ...

[RJW]

About the production aspect.
I think Pioneer is now doing the same as MCC did allready.
Which means start up a production line to prove your production process to third parties. Even do this befor the approvement.
If Pioneer works fast and the approvement part has allready started they might be very near the release of there +R counterpart.

The DVD alliance is pushing dates further and further back. At this point there talking allready about june which is still (late)spring as Philips and MCC originally stated but not the same as april which was something said by Philips and Benq people.

Remember +R at this moment needs to release a new drive. Pioneer however looks to not need a new drive (if they keep there strategies ).

[Dartman]

Well everytime we decide on a burner somebody comes along and makes us wish we'd gotten the other, soon to be upgraded, burner. We can't win em all. All we can hope for is it may happen and possibly trickle down to other burners (Cough811Cough) I'm still hoping for my free upgrade to 8x minus writing.

[BurninMan921]

Hmm...on that demo, they only wrote 100MBs/layer. Guess they still have a LOT of work ahead. But if they get it working...I'll be buying an A06!

[dodecahedron]

personally, i think all you guys are reading too much into this. i'm very skeptical.

the fact that they demoed it on a A06 with an improved firmware still does not mean by any long shot that the A06 drive is fully capable (with a firmware upgrade of course) of dual layer burning.

remember the Phillips demo with a HP300i capable of dual layer DVD+R burning? we all know what came of that.

i think it far more likely that only the A07 will have dual layer burning capability.
only time will tell.

[Noua]

Llike I stated earlier we should take it easy. It might be possible and we should be happy with it.

One little thin... For them to present in these last days this new technology it's because they have been developing it for some time now... remember this...

[Flyer22]

Great news ppl..

i bought my 106 not too long ago...i would love if pioneer release such an updated firmware

[Ian]

personally, i think all you guys are reading too much into this. i'm very skeptical.

I am as well. That's why I contacted Pioneer today to see if I could get some more info out of them. I'm not counting on getting any more info, but who knows.

[dodecahedron]

WOW!

NEW AVATAR!



nice!
what is it anyways?


edit: bbcode doesn't work!...https ???

[Ian]

what is it anyways?

It's a picture someone drew of Energon Optimus Prime.. aka "Fatimus" ( due to his less than flattering physique).

[RJW]

personally, i think all you guys are reading too much into this. i'm very skeptical.

the fact that they demoed it on a A06 with an improved firmware still does not mean by any long shot that the A06 drive is fully capable (with a firmware upgrade of course) of dual layer burning.

remember the Phillips demo with a HP300i capable of dual layer DVD+R burning? we all know what came of that.

i think it far more likely that only the A07 will have dual layer burning capability.
only time will tell.

Why we still shouldn't expect the end product to work on the a06. There is a huge difference between Pioneer and Philips.
Pioneer allways stated that they would want to add dual layer just by firmware support.
Philips never said anything and hinted from the begining that there might be a new drive needed.

Pioneer intentions were to get it working on the old drive from day one.
Still it is the question how the end product will turn out.
In other words we can expect the a07 to be able to burn dual layer.

But for the a06 it's unknown.
If we get it also for the a06 then we should be very happy but don't expect it. Still this demo + Pioneers initial statements showed that there is a small change for the a06.

[Kennyshin]

personally, i think all you guys are reading too much into this. i'm very skeptical.

the fact that they demoed it on a A06 with an improved firmware still does not mean by any long shot that the A06 drive is fully capable (with a firmware upgrade of course) of dual layer burning.

remember the Phillips demo with a HP300i capable of dual layer DVD+R burning? we all know what came of that.

i think it far more likely that only the A07 will have dual layer burning capability.
only time will tell.

It's quite different from the fact Philips used an HP drive to demonstrate Dual Layer DVD+R recording. Impress is a serious Japanese technology site and it was a CES official report. Impress reporting a CES demonstration prepaired by Pioneer on this kind of innovation. It is still possible nothing about dual layer will happen to A05/A06 but I feel it's highly likely that it will.

I first read about the "rumor" on dual layer in 2002. The German guy said commercialization in 2004, being developed in Japan. A lot of people dismissed it as a rumor then.

[dodecahedron]

you guys are missing my point.

when i mentioned the Phillips demo i wasn't saying it's exactly the same.
all i was saying was: the expectations were too high. everyone was thinking of a firmware upgrade to dual-layer. that didn't happen. and Phillips keeps pushing back the release date for dual layer.

[Kennyshin]

you guys are missing my point.

when i mentioned the Phillips demo i wasn't saying it's exactly the same.
all i was saying was: the expectations were too high. everyone was thinking of a firmware upgrade to dual-layer. that didn't happen. and Phillips keeps pushing back the release date for dual layer.

Not exactly the same and not even close. Not everyone expected it and it did not seem to me it was DVDRW Alliance's intention to make people expect it.

Just like RJW said above:

Pioneer intentions were to get it working on the old drive from day one.
Still it is the question how the end product will turn out.
In other words we can expect the a07 to be able to burn dual layer.

Not even close, that's a clearly different strategy. Instead of reading the opinions and interpretations on this board, read the original articles first.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/ ... /ces06.htm

パイオニア、A06を使ったDVD-Rの2層記録のデモ

(Sorry, but that's Japanese and Hanja.)

That's the topic title. Compare that article with the one about DVD+R DL demonstration last year. The A06 article is about the ability of DVR-A06 writing to dual layer DVD-R at 2x speed with firmware update. The Philips article mentioned nothing about an HP300i or a firmware update as far as I remember.

[jase]

Nevertheless this is a huge improvement and to know that our 106/A06 has the capibility to do dual layer burning it's really great because, like what happened to the NEC 1100=1300, sooner or later we will get the update...

I was under the impression that the 1100a was never successfully flashed to a 1300a?