InCD 4.0.1.0

[Hazey]

Thanks KCK, I'll give the autoinsert notification a shot.

InCD4 was real buggy on my system have been running InCD since 3.20
without any major problems.
Windows XP HE /SP1 with all updates
LiteOn LTR-48125W SV0D

I went back to InCD 3.5.24.0.

In all fairness to Ahead. InCD 4.0.1.0 is abit of a beta. I knew that before I downloaded it. I was hopeful that it would run smoothly on my computer, which was not the case. I'm sure they'll be working on the bugs and the next release should solve most(if not all) our problems.

Cheers .

[dodecahedron]

For a long time, but still in the days of InCD 3.x, Ahead used "v1.0" for whatever version of EasyWriteReader that happened to be linked on their download page, and the file sizes specified on Ahead's site didn't always correspond to the actual sizes of downloaded files. It is true that in at least two cases, Explorer | Properties | Version | File Version showed 1.0.0.1 and 3.3.2.0, and 3.3.2.0 is reported for the latest version which should be used with InCD 3.x.

I just checked that this version of 750220 bytes is still available at ftp.nero.com, ftp4.nero.com and ftp6.nero.com, i.e., the locations I listed on Monday. Maybe Ahead's sites were being reorganized when you looked.

i have 3 versions of EasyWriteReader:
1. 725420 bytes, version 1.0.0.1 (according to properties)
2. 750220 bytes, version 3.3.2.0 (according to properties)
3. 663057 bytes, version 4.0.0.10

i agree that the downloads on ahead's site were all disorganized, mismatch between the file size of the download and the size reported on the download page, differing sizes (and versions of course) from different mirrors etc.

another bugging annoyance is the inconsistency with the naming scheme of InCD ...

the info i posted, about the last 2 links containing the new EasyWriteReader, was correct for June 4, circa 1600 GMT.

Of course, Ahead should give proper links to InCD 3.52.40 and EasyWriteReader 3.3.2.0 while referring to InCD 3.x, instead of making users scan their continually changing ftp sites.

i totally agree.

Another twist is that for EasyWriteReader 4.0.0.10 (663057 bytes), there is no Version tab in Explorer | Properties (on XP SP1).

yeah, ahead uses different installers (or whatever it is), the .exe files have different icons and different formats.
i've notices that the ones that don't have a version tab in the properties, are WinRAR archives (see the Archive tab), and they have a Comment tab that usually has the version number.

[KCK]

dodecahedron:

As for InCD 3.x, there were problems with various versions of EasyWriteReader except for v3.3.2.0, which is identifiable via its size of 750220 bytes (other sizes included 725420 and 766080).

For InCD 4.x, the downloadable v4.0.0.10 of EasyWriteReader is identical to the one included on InCD formatted discs (in the Files folder, which is seen only when a disc is not recognized properly). Of course, this may change in the future.

BTW, where do you get Archive and Comment tabs? On my XP Pro SP1 box, Explorer | Properties has just General, Compatibility, Security and Summary tabs for EasyWriteReader v4.0.0.10.

[dodecahedron]

hi KCK.

in ahead's .exe installers/updaters, some of them have (in Explorer -> Properties) General, Version, Compatibility, Summary tabs.
others, the newer ones, have General, Compatibility, Archive, Comments, Summary tabs. (e.g. EasyWriteReader 4.0.0.10).
it appears that they changed the installer software some time ago.
the older version: InCD up to 3.31, Nero up to 5.5.9.9. (up to 8/2002).
the newer version: InCD from 3.37, Nero from 5.5.9.14 (since 9/2002).

and i don't have a Security tab, in either old or new files!

maybe having the Archive and Comment tabs has to do with having WinRAR installed? the title in the Archive tab is Solid SFX RAR archive. and the Comment tab contents start with: ;The comment below contains SFX script commands.
in the EasyWriteReader 4.0.0.10 file, the Comment has inside it Title=InCD 4.0 EasyWrite Reader. but usually it has a 4-digit version number. e.g InCD 4.0.1.0 file has Title=InCD 4 4.0.1.0 Ahead Software AG in the Comment tab

[Pilgrim]

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your email.


Please uninstall/install InCD 4010 by doing the following…it may address your issues.

Then download NeroClean Tool from ftp://ftp9.nero.com/attach/Nero-CleanTool.zip to your desktop. Unzip the file and then double click on the EXE file to run. Select 'Clean All' option and then click on the 'Clean' button to Uninstall all Nero products. And then reboot your system. It will clean the registry and remove all Nero entries.

After that download and install the latest InCD version from our website at http://www.nero.com.

Best regards
Al Valerio

Ahead Support Team
______________________________________________________

I tried their recommendation and it didn't resolve the problem with the blank CD-RW opening the InCD dialog. What it did accomplish is requiring me to reinstall all Nero software again.

Jeff

[dodecahedron]

thanks, Pilgrim, for that.
downloaded the CleanTool.

[KCK]

dodecahedron:

Indeed your additional Archive and Comment tabs may be due to WinRAR; I can't check, since I don't need WinRAR (Total Commander is enough).

Pilgrim:

I'm not suprised that Ahead's fix didn't work for you, since probably it amounted to reinstalling InCD 4.0.1.0.

BTW, although this is not essential for you, I wouldn't be sure that Nero-CleanTool (dated 12/03/2002) can remove cleanly Ahead's products that were developed later, such as InCD 4.0.1.0.

On another note, Nero-CleanTool behaves strangely on my XP Pro SP1 box. When I ran Nero-CleanTool.exe, it looked as if a fairly large window opened and closed immediately, and then two windows remained: Ahead CleanUp Tool with the text "Please Wait...", and CleanUpTool on top with the message: "Do you want to remove the following programs really? Nero", and two buttons `Yes' and `No'. I clicked `No', of course. Next, since Nero-CleanTool.exe is an SFX RAR archive, I unpacked it to get the two files AheadCleanTool.cfg and CleanUpTool.exe, but running CleanUpTool.exe gave the same result. Thus I couldn't see the options mentioned in Ahead's response to your querry.

[Pilgrim]

I've had two major crashes with InCD 4.0.1.0 in 2 days... enough is enough. Uninstalled it and even got an InCD crash doing that and installed the previous version. Now Autoplay doesn't work again, but hey, I'm happy for now just to get rid of that thing.

Jeff

[KCK]

I'm not sure what kind of Autoplay you're expecting for InCD 3.x.

Still on the subject of InCD 4.0.1.0, did you check if copied files inherited their dates? Frankly, I'm quite disappointed that nobody seems to be willing to confirm my findings about this apparent bug.

Further, it would be useful for other readers if you addressed the issues raised on Nero-CleanTool in my former message.

[Pilgrim]

I'm not sure what kind of Autoplay you're expecting for InCD 3.x.

The same Autoplay I have always had with InCD 3.x!

Still on the subject of InCD 4.0.1.0, did you check if copied files inherited their dates?

In fact I did and they were fine. It would appear that InCD 4 has different kinds of adverse effects on different systems/configuations.

All I care about at this point is that I am rid of that buggy program. I'm still cleaning up some of the after-afffects of the crashes..... !!

Jeff

[KCK]

Pilgrim:

You failed to understand the tone of my previous message.

This is not Ahead's technical support message board, and I'm not an Ahead employee who must supply at least canned answers.

As I see it, the main purpose here is to learn about technical aspects of using InCD 4.x. Therefore, if I decide to spend some time on investigating a particular user's querry, I expect that this user will respond in a way that addresses all the issues raised in my reply, in a way that enhances our understanding of InCD 4.x.

In this context, I can only say that I fail to understand any Autoplay issues for InCD 3.x, that I would like to hear more details about your checking for correct inheritance of date stamps for copied files (since I mentioned that problems occur when directories with thousands of files are copied), and that you have not addressed any issues about Nero-CleanTool.

This is not directed at you, but if more users respond in the spirit of "all I care about at this point", then I'll drop out from this thread.

[Pilgrim]

KCK,

This is not Ahead's technical support message board, and I'm not an Ahead employee who must supply at least canned answers.

I never assumed anything of the kind. If you have understood anything I have asked or said in that way, I apologize, but it certainly wasn't part of my thinking.

that you have not addressed any issues about Nero-CleanTool.

I have no issues about Nero-Clean tool? I worked fine for me and did what it was supposed to do. Sorry, but I'm not an Ahead tech support worker.

but if more users respond in the spirit of "all I care about at this point", then I'll drop out from this thread.

I do think that things have changed tremendously here since my last visit. And, to be honest, it isn't being well received. You can continue with the thread or drop from the thread, but I think I will be better off going elsewhere. Thanks for the ride!

[Inertia]

As Pilgrim has no desire to return to this thread, I will post (for him) the following message that he received from Nero in case anyone is experiencing similar problems:

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your email.

The problem has been addressed to engineering. Hopefully the next release will come up with a fix. FYI, we get a new release every 30 days.
Best regards
Al Valerio

Ahead Support Team

[bobmitchell]

I get wierd errors with 4.0.1.0. Sometimes, I opt to write directly to a CD-RW from MS Word or Excel I normally save the file to a directory on my CD-RW and all works fine. Since I installed 4.0.1.0...I get encryption errors. When I write to the CD...it looks OK. Then I take the disc out and reinsert and get an encryption error in Word. It says it can't read the file and wants me to choose an encryption to open it with. Then the file is all jibberish. All I am dealing with here is .doc files and InCD can't write properly to the disc. If I save to the hard drive first and copy to the CD-RW...it works fine...

I e mailed Ahead...and got a canned response. Back to 3.5.24

Bob

[Inertia]

KCK,

I installed InCD 4.0.10 in WinXP. First I had to uninstall both InCD 3.52.40 and Roxio Drag-to-Disc, which had been installed together without noticable problems.

I didn't have to copy thousands of files to notice the file date inconsistency. I seems almost random in that some files in the same directory will be carried forward with the original time stamp, but others will have the date and time of the copy. In my limited testing, I noticed that .CAB, .BIN and .INI files transferred within a directory didn't retain the original date, while other file extensions kept the correct date stamp.

Furthermore, if the files are not copied within a directory container but individually, they seem to drop their original date and pick up the (current) copy date and time. With further testing, this is inconsistent. Sometimes original dates are carried forward, sometimes not.

So, I agree with you, there is a problem in transferring file time stamps.

I'm not interested in being a beta tester for Nero, but I did want to help you confirm your findings. If there is anything else you would like me to confirm for you, let me know. Otherwise, I am going to uninstall this version and go back to my previous configuration.

[KCK]

Inertia:

Thanks a lot for confirming the time stamping problem. Did you use MRW or non-MRW discs?

Could you also check InCD's autoplay on blank discs? If it does work for you, please tell us your settings for Windows CD recording and the IMAPI service.

Did you look in Task Manager for how much memory is taken up by incdsrv.exe and InCD.exe after formatting or copying?

As for relative speeds of InCD 3.x and 4.x, you could time copying about 400 MB of data by InCD 4.0.1.0, and then by InCD 3.52.40 once you revert to it. On the other hand, maybe there is little point in such experiments, since InCD 4.0.1.0 is still immature.

Finally, I wonder whether Nero-CleanTool comes up correctly on your box. I'm not suggesting that you use it; just see if it offers the options mentioned by Ahead. But again, this isn't really important.

[Inertia]

Did you use MRW or non-MRW discs?

The first time I used a preformatted non-MRW 12X CD-RW. I repeated the test with a full erase and MRW format. The date stamps were transferred in the same inconsistent and unpredictable way. .EXE files in one copied folder may reset the date to the copy time, while .EXE files in another folder may retain the original date and time. Go figure.

The non-MRW disc had about 533 MB of available space which is normal. The MRW formatted disc shows 442 MB available on an empty disc in Windows properties but 503 MB in InCD properties. Take your pick, but neither are impressive.

After reinstalling Roxio's Drag-to-Disc, the same MRW test disc showed a capacity of 527 MB, 24 MB more than the best case in Nero.

Could you also check InCD's autoplay on blank discs? If it does work for you, please tell us your settings for Windows CD recording and the IMAPI service.

With InCD 4.0.1.0, I did a quick erase on the disc and ejected it. On closing the tray autoplay recognizes the disc to the extent that a empty drive window pops up. Autoplay doesn't seem to work with InCD, as it doesn't open an InCD window and offer any information or options. I tried changing the IMAPI service and CD recording settings with no success concerning InCD recognition of the blank CD-RW.

InCD 3.5.24.0 works normally with autoplay, popping up an InCD window whether a blank or written CD-RW disc is inserted. IMAPI service is set to manual and Desktop CD recording is not enabled.

Did you look in Task Manager for how much memory is taken up by incdsrv.exe and InCD.exe after formatting or copying?

With about 62 MB on the CD-RW disc, Task Manager shows InCDsrv.exe using 10,088 KB and InCD.exe using 6,088 KB, a total of 16,176 KB.

With 430 MB on the CD-RW disc, Task Manager shows DrgToDsc.exe using 5,272 KB. As far as I know, this is the only active file used by Roxio Drag-to-Disc.

As for relative speeds of InCD 3.x and 4.x, you could time copying about 400 MB of data by InCD 4.0.1.0, and then by InCD 3.52.40 once you revert to it. On the other hand, maybe there is little point in such experiments, since InCD 4.0.1.0 is still immature.

It took 7:07 minutes to copy 430 MB using InCD 4.0.1.0 with MRW.

The same files were copied in 5:40 minutes using InCD 3.5.24.0.

The same files were copied in 5.08 minues using Roxio Drag-to-Disc.

Finally, I wonder whether Nero-CleanTool comes up correctly on your box. I'm not suggesting that you use it; just see if it offers the options mentioned by Ahead. But again, this isn't really important.

The latest Clean Tool works the same way in WinXP and Win98 as it did for you, a momentary DOS window and then "Do you want to remove the following programs really?". I like the older version of the Clean Tool better as it actually offers different options about what is to be removed.

Roxio Drag-to-Disc is a better developed packet writing program, with more features, options and advantages. It has a far better GUI, help, and is generally easier to use. It is also less buggy.

[dodecahedron]

Roxio Drag-to-Disc is a better developed packet writing program, with more features, options and advantages. It has a far better GUI, help, and is generally easier to use. It is also less buggy.

Inertia,
would you mind commenting as to which you think is better, InCD (3, as 4 is still beta) or DirectCD 5? i'm deliberating as to which one to install (i don't have DragToDisc = DirectCD 6, so that's not an option).
i would like to hear your opinion.

(sorry for going off-topic)

[Inertia]

dodecahedron,

If I had to choose just one, I would pick DirectCD 5xx. Most of my comments about Drag-to-Disc would still apply compared to InCD 3xx.

As you know, those with mortal fear of the reliability of CD-RW discs (justly so) can burn CD-R with DirectCD but not InCD. Furthermore, the CD-R discs can be closed to ISO so that any computer can read the files without packet writing software or readers. DirectCD also has file recovery and undelete utilities, better help file, and better GUI.

[KCK]

Inertia:

Again, many thanks for taking the trouble to run all those tests.

As for the time stamping problem, your observations agree with mine; in particular, dates are reset to the current one in an upredictable way (independent of file extensions) as if randomly, for about every second file on average. (As I wrote earlier, since DirectCD 5.x suffered from a similar bug for a long time, it will be interesting to see how quickly Ahead fixes it.)

Concerning the capacity of formatted discs, I guess you used 74min/650MB discs similarly to Hazey, who reported 438 MB for non-MRW with InCD 4.0.1.0, 538 MB for non-MRW and 520 MB for MRW with InCD 3.52.40. My figures for 80min/700MB discs with InCD 3.52.40 are 572 MB for non-MRW and 539 MB for MRW; I'll try to get 74min/650MB discs to check their capacities on my burner. Your capacities for InCD 4.0.1.0 MRW do look strange; all I can say is that this apparent bug doesn't occur on my box. Before drawing further conclusions, we would need more evidence, such as your capacity for MRW with InCD 3.52.40. In general, since MRW formatting is done via the burner's firmware, it would be quite suprising if the free capacity depended significantly on whether Drag-to-Disc or InCD were used.

As for InCD's autoplay, did you use the same settings as in

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 6950#66950

and did you try the Explorer | Properties trick given in

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 7296#67296

I don't know if the memory usage reported by Task Manager for incdsrv.exe and InCD.exe depends on the amount of data on a disc. It does seem to be inordinately large (lots of debugging code perhaps?), and a rather disturbing feature is that it never goes down. As far as I remember, for InCD 3.52.40, InCD.exe needed about 3.5 MB; I'll check when I eventually revert to it.

Your transfer speeds look reasonable; again, I'll try to provide comparative results after reverting to InCD 3.52.40. I guess you were using 12x discs, but which burner? I also presume you didn't have Drag-to-Disc and InCD 3.52.40 installed at the same time.

Thanks for confirming that Nero-CleanTool misbehaves similarly on your box; we are less lucky than Pilgrim.

[Inertia]

KCK, you're welcome.

Yes, I used 74 minute discs. When I first tested InCD 4 the disc capacity in Windows properties was 442 MB on the MRW disc. I found this to be unacceptable and was ready to say so until I noticed that InCD 3.5 reported the same capacity in Windows properties, but returned a capacity of 503 MB in InCD properties. I hadn't checked InCD properties for the capacity with InCD 4 before uninstalling, but I assume that it would have returned the same 503 MB capacity as InCD 3. This variance in capacity between Windows and InCD properties appears to be a bug.

The true capacity with a 74 minute MRW disc is undoubtedly at least 503 MB (although I didn't test it), but this is still too much overhead in my opinion. The MRW capacity variance between Drag-to-Disc and InCD would not be attributed to formatting per se, but presumably overhead used for data integrity purposes. The accuracy of the variance may be questionable, since as I reported, the same MRW disc created with Nero 3.5 and reported to contain 503 MB capacity was reported to have a capacity of 527 MB by Drag-to-Disc.

I made no manual settings or Explorer tricks to start InCD autoplay as described in your links. Whether or not this would have worked, I don't know. This should not be necessary when software is installed, and particularly software that depends on autoplay to operate satisfactorily. It just underscores the current buggy status of the software.

I was using a 10X TDK CD-RW disc which records at 12X on the LiteOn LTR-52246S which was used for testing.

Drag-to-Disc was not reinstalled until the tests with InCD 3.5.24.0 were concluded.

[Hazey]

Just thought i'd chime in,

Yes, I used 74 minute discs. When I first tested InCD 4 the disc capacity in Windows properties was 442 MB on the MRW disc. I found this to be unacceptable and was ready to say so until I noticed that InCD 3.5 reported the same capacity in Windows properties, but returned a capacity of 503 MB in InCD properties. I hadn't checked InCD properties for the capacity with InCD 4 before uninstalling, but I assume that it would have returned the same 503 MB capacity as InCD 3. This variance in capacity between Windows and InCD properties appears to be a bug.

When I checked the capacity of my MRW formated disk I used windows properties, which showed 438mb. I didn't check with InCD properties. It's quite possible that I would have found the same error.

Cheers .

[CCampbell]

Helo Everyone,

Sorry I have not responded or jumped in prior to this, but I have been on the road all week, and forgot to bring my password information so that I could respond to this forum.

However, KCK and Inertia, amoung others have done a very good job of assisting everyone, and I have been following the conversations all along, as have others from our company.

InCD 4 is just a baby compared to other Packet Writing programs, it's still in it's infancy. Others have been out there in the market for years now, and have had the time to resolve issues as they come up. We are trying to tackle a mountain all at once, and doing our best to do so quickly. We are fixing bugs found in InCD 4 on a daily bases, and each month you will see significant improvements in InCD 4's performance.

We did our best to try and resolve all the major issues, as well as minor, that we could find with InCD 4 before we had to release it. But we have only so many systems, and so many configurations. It's impossible to cover all possible scenarios, but we do try our best.

We are constantly getting feedback from our OEM's and End User customers, and these have been envaluble in helping us find and resolve bugs. And we are monitoring the forums as well to help us find or locate bugs and resolve them ASAP.

InCD 4 is admittedly not as robust as other Packet Writing programs, yet. But this is our own source code this time, unlike InCD 2x or InCD 3x, and our goal is to make it as solid as possible, as we have done with Nero. We have the ability to resolve bugs very quickly, and are doing so for InCD. So any and all feedback is very greatly appreciated. And we do listen and pass this information on to our Engineers.

Our Tech support team is between a rock and a hard spot as they are working with a new Program, that is unknown and can be expected to have bugs we have not come across. So trouble shooting currently pertains to making sure InCD is install properly, recorder has latest firmware, and system is tuned. Beyond that, they can only obtain as much details about the bug the customer is encountering, as well as the system it's being used on, and passing this on to our Q&A team in Germany to test, duplicate and report to our Engineers to resolve. So even though they may not seem to be providing a lot of help, they are helping to make the InCD 4 software better in the future.

InCD 4 is not really beta, but might as well be considered so for all intents and purposes. But if we were to keep the software in house till we were sure it's was solid, even for a year, it would not improve as fast as it can by releasing it now and facing the storm of problems that is bound to pop up. And try and resolve them as quickly as we can. In the long run, this will help to make InCD 4 solid, and we hope more reliable than other Packet Writing programs have been known to be in the past. We are putting ALL our efforts towards this goal.

So please fill free to send any issues you find my way, or voice them on this forum, as we will be watching and taking notes.


Best Regards,

Craig

[KCK]

Inertia:

I'm quite confused about these formatted capacities, so let me first describe my latest experiment.

I found a 74min/650MB Lite-On 4x-12x disc which came with my burner. MInfo and SmartBurn say it's made by CMC; thus it could be bad enough to yield a smaller than usual formatted capacity.

Using InCD 4.0.1.0 under XP on LTR-48125W V0D, the total MRW format took 7:20 min. Next, Explorer | Properties | General showed File system INCDFS, used space 38,912 bytes 38.0 KB, free 529,885,184 505 MB, capacity 529,924,096 bytes 505 MB. Further, Explorer | Properties | InCD didn't show any capacities; just Disc speed: High, MRW disc, UDF v1.02.

Thus, apparently for InCD 4.0.1.0 there is no other way of checking capacity except via Explorer | Properties | General.

Now, if I understood correctly, while using InCD 4.0.1.0, you got 442 MB for a 74min MRW disc formatted with InCD 4.0.1.0. (The latter aspect needn't be important, unless Drag-to-Disc was used for formatting, since on my XP box InCD 4.0.1.0 reports correct (original) capacities for MRW and non-MRW discs formatted by InCD 3.31, 3.51.91 and 3.52.40.) Well, since our capacities differ so much, it would help if other users reported their capacities for MRW discs with InCD 4.0.1.0.

Since you only mentioned different capacities reported by Explorer and InCD 3.x properties for this single disc formatted by InCD 4.0.1.0, I'll check if this also occurs for discs formatted by InCD 3.x once I revert to 3.x.

On the other hand, if Drag-to-Disc reports 527 MB capacity for a 74min MRW disc formatted by InCD 3.5.x, then something is definitely wrong, and InCD 3.5.x needn't be the culprit. Could you tell us what capacities are reported by Drag-to-Disc and InCD 3.5.x for MRW discs formatted by Drag-to-Disc?

Hazey:

If I recall correctly, with InCD 4.0.1.0 you got 438 MB for a non-MRW disc, since MRW didn't work for you.

[Hazey]

Hazey:

If I recall correctly, with InCD 4.0.1.0 you got 438 MB for a non-MRW disc, since MRW didn't work for you.

My bad. I should have wrote Non-MRW discs. Sorry about that

InCD 4 is not really beta

Sorry about using the "beta" word.

Cheers .