S/W for Cendyne Not Applicable to Other Drives

[CowboySlim]

I am perplexed by a comment in the review of the Cendyne Lightning V CD-RW. It stated that the Ahead S/W that is bundled with the Cendyne drive will not work with other brands of drives. Links are provided to updates of the Ahead S/W (Nero Buring ROM and InCD). However, when I click on these links, they take me to the same place where I obtain updates for the Ahead S/W that came bundled with my Yamaha CRW3200E CD-RW drive.

What am I missing here?

Thanks,
Slim

[cfitz]

The serial number is what limits the software, not the software build itself. The software has all the functionality built into, and depending on what serial number you supply, only the appropriate portions are unlocked. There are different series of serial numbers for Yamaha, Memorex, Cendyne, etc.

cfitz

[CowboySlim]

Thanks, cfitz, that I understand.

Now, maybe my real question has the same answer (which I hope that it doesn't).

I was looking at the CenDyne (and others) as an upgrade from my 40x,10x,24x Yamaha. It really doesn't matter that my current Ahead S/W won't work as I'll just replace it with the new as bundled. However, the Yamaha also came bundled with the Dantz Retrospect Express backup and disaster recovery S/W which I have come to rely on. As this is not included with CenDyne, or others, do you think that it too may be serialized such that it works only with the Yamaha?

Thanks,
Slim

[CowboySlim]

I guess it really doesn't matter. I've recently installed a 2nd HDD and made the first partition bootable with XP as a backup to the original HDD. I've then used Dantz to do a "file" backup of the first, bootable partition, of the 1st HDD to a subsequent partition on the 2nd HDD. In the event that I crash the 1st, I can boot via the BIOS into the 2nd and then restore the first partition on the 1st HDD. As such, backing up to CD-Rs and making a disaster recovery CD is just another level (redundant) of security.

Even if the Dantz doesn't work with a different CD-RW drive, as long as I do as described above, it doesn't seem to matter.

Comment?

Slim

[cfitz]

Sounds like a pretty good plan in general, although a hard-drive only plan doesn't provide any off-site backups in the event of fire/flood/etc, nor does it protect against a catastophic case failure (e.g. power supply regulators fail and damagingly high voltage is introduced to the output rails). The chances of these types of failures are much smaller than, for example, a hard disc failure, so protecting against them may not be worth the trouble.

As with all backup plans, make sure to test it before you need it.

If I get a chance, I will try to test my copy of Retrospect on a non-Yamaha drive (I have a CRW3200EZ myself, but have never actually installed and used Retrospect.)

cfitz

[CowboySlim]

Yeah, thanks.

I acknowledge, I've tried that HDD to HDD restore in a non-crisis mode and it works. And yes, I realize that I am not double or triple failure mode protected with the HDD to HDD method - it only protects against primary HDD failure. Interesting, that when I select "file" as an option, Dantz cautions that the protection of remote/alternate site storage is obviated.

However, as long as I have the Yamaha, I still use the Dantz to BU to CD-R, just not quite as frequently.

Maybe the Dantz won't work with other CD-RW drives. In the back of my mind maybe I've read that you must restore with the same drive. I'll see if I can find that reference.

Slim

[cfitz]

I tested and can confirm, unsurprisingly, that the copy of Retrospect that shipped with your CRW3200 will only work with the CRW3200 (or at least only work with Yamaha burners). I was able to run the program and back up to a file, but not to a non-Yamaha CD burner. After I removed the CRW3200 from my system, Retrospect couldn't find any burners when it scanned for backup devices.

cfitz

[CowboySlim]

Very interesting. Conclusion: If you back up to a burner, it must at least be a Yamaha and maybe the same model.

Tonight, I'll take it off the IDE cable prior to boot. Then try to BU to a partition on the other HDD. If that works, I'll try a restore.

Slim

[CowboySlim]

cfitz,

I performed the experiment outlined above. Disconnected the IDE cable and then did a file backup to a partition on the other HDD. Followed with a restore. As the doctors tell the waiting relatives after the operation: "Everything went well." Makes sense - Dantz also backs up to tapes and Jazz, etc. Should work without the presence of a CD-RW drive (at least the standalone non-bundled version).

I'm thinking about putting my CRW3200 in the computer that I just put together for my daughter. Then I'll get that 52x/24x/52x Memorex/Lite-On at Office Depot for $60 after rebates. It will have the Ahead S/W but not the Dantz. That is why I was wondering if the Dantz would work with other brands. The disaster recovery feature and the bootable CD that it provides has been a lifesaver for me in the past. However, as I mentioned above, now with two bootable HDDs, that capability is not mandatory.

I keep my "data", mostly photos and songs on the logical partitions and so my primary partitions have only the OS and Apps. I backup the data with Nero and/or InCD so that will still be protected without the Dantz in the event of a double HDD failure. (I used the Dantz only for bootable partiton backup and the disaster recovery function.) If I do have a double failure without the Dantz, it is just the pain of rebuilding the primary partiton in a new HDD with the OSS and Apps from the original CDs. The worst part is D/Ling all the virus def's and Windows XP Home updates over my dialup.

Slim

[cfitz]

It sounds like you have a good plan in place. For what it is worth, Nero can burn bootable CDs, and it also has a "Hard Drive" backup feature that appears to simply an entire partition at the sector (as opposed to file) level. I've not tried it, but it might be something to consider, as it might save you having to download all the patches (which I agree is very painful given the huge volume of MS bug fixes) again in the event of a double hard drive failure. I guess this is one instance where making a separate partition for the OS might have some merit.

cfitz

[CowboySlim]

Very good anticipation, cfitz,

That, indeed, will be my next endeavour. I did notice that Nero has a bootable CD capability. I also recall that the manual discusses difficulty in burning out an active, bootable, primary partition and then getting it to work after restoration. Worth a try anyway since I can always recover with the Dantz bootable CD and backup or from the file copy on the other HDD. Perhaps this W/E.

Nothing to do now but learn more.

Later,
Slim

[CowboySlim]

cfitz,

Everything that you told me above turned out to be 100% correct! I grabbed the Memorex branded Lite-On, 52x/24x/52x, for $50, if I get the rebates, when it went on sale at Best Buy 2 weeks ago. It replaced the Yamaha CRW3200EBEK - my daughter is very happy to have that in the machine that I built for her last month. I immediately attempted a burn, as a test, with the Yamaha bundled Ahead S/W and as you predicted: nogo. The reason that I chose the Memorex as opposed to the other re-brands of Lite-On is that it also comes bundled with Nero and InCD. On which the included CD is labeled "NERO" instead of Memorex and clearly states, on the label, will only work with the recorded that it is bundled with (and no mention of that recorder being Memorex).

I've installed the latest updates, 5.5.10.7b and 3.5.2.00b. I've noted in other forums that installing Lite-On firmware updates will change the brand name and model number that Nero sees and therefore the bundled Ahead S/W may no longer work. To preclude that event, I'll pass until I see an update on the Memorex site that looks beneficial.

I've made a couple of burns with the Nero with good results.

I make a lot of compilations (songs from a number of original CD-As) in standard CD-Audio format. I learned right away that normalization, or volume leveling, is real important to have. Therefore, quite a while ago I chose to install the $20 upgrade to my MusicMatch JukeBox as it includes that functionality. That works just fine with the Memorex for C&W music, but then, that's all that I need.

Few D&D tests with InCD revealed less than total reliability as others have noted elsewhere herein. Not sure why just yet - have never observed anything anomalous with InCD and the Yamaha. Actually, almost inconsequential nowadays. With the big box stores having weekly specials on CD-R media at 10 cents per, I don't really use D&D packet writing anymore.

Thanks again,
Slim

[cfitz]

Everything that you told me above turned out to be 100% correct!

There's a first time for everything...

I've noted in other forums that installing Lite-On firmware updates will change the brand name and model number that Nero sees and therefore the bundled Ahead S/W may no longer work. To preclude that event, I'll pass until I see an update on the Memorex site that looks beneficial.

One of these days I should edit one of the LiteOn firmware updates to give it a Memorex ID string so I can upgrade my firmware and still use my bundled Nero. I haven't done so yet because I haven't had any problems with my drive that I think a firmware update might resolve.

I make a lot of compilations (songs from a number of original CD-As) in standard CD-Audio format. I learned right away that normalization, or volume leveling, is real important to have. Therefore, quite a while ago I chose to install the $20 upgrade to my MusicMatch JukeBox as it includes that functionality.

Nero and the freeware CDex program also have normalization functions. I'm sure other packages do as well.

cfitz

[CowboySlim]

Well, cfitz (and all), if it's not one thing, it's another. But, it's always something.

I've resolved the MusicMatch issue and perhaps it was IAA related. I thought that the unsuccessful burn was incredibly slow, anyway. I looked at their FAQs and saw their instructions on how to set burn speed. I wasn't aware that it was re-settable. I had presumed that it was self-setting as is Nero. So I went to do that, after uninstalling IAA, and saw it was 4X. Where did that come from? IAA? I reset to 40x, too cautious for 48x, and it shot through with a good burn of a CD-Audio. I don't think, however, that it went as fast as 40x anyway. I was watching the CPU meter and it was maxed at 100% (it was converting form mp3, so maybe that limited the write speed) and the buffer was consistently at 0%.

Wait, one more thing: (This is like a Colombo movie) That was last night. Then I read the thread about the IAA again and checked by channel settings it was PIO! Maybe IAA had set that and I understand from Robert at www.hardwareguys.com that PIA puts more load on the CPU. But I couldn't reset to DMA2. Then I did something totally unreasonable, I read the Memorex install sheet!!!!!!!!!!! It must be jumpered to MASTER! Since I had it on the same channel as a HDD, I automatically jumpered to slave, as I've done with my previous burners. But, why do they give you the option and label the pins "S" and tell you it must be "M" or "CS"? Unfortunately, MM doesn't give a direct burn speed as does Nero but I'll try again soon and use my aural tach.

SEPARATE ISSUE:
But now I just noticed another strange packet writing anomaly. Generally, D&D works with *mp3 and *jpeg, etc. for me. I was trying to D&D some files that were D/Ls of installers for updates, *.zip deals, *.exe and stuff like that. Well, to make a short story unbearably long, things went well for a lot of files and it froze, completely, and I had to reset. After reboot, I examined the CD and didn't see the files that had apparently copied OK. There was some stuff I didn't recognize and worse yet the file structure was no longer UDF.
I'm really guessing here, but I think that one of the autoplays, or installers or *.exe started to go off and run and installing the stuff on the rewritable CD. ???

But, I'm coming to that conclusion, also, about forgetting InCD. This new writer is 24x on rewrite and to make full use, which I don't that much anymore, I've got to buy some 24x blanks at $3-$5 each. Well, I get my 48x CD-R blanks at the big box retailers at their weekly sales for 10 cents per, after rebate. That's mainly why I do so little D&D to CD-RW these days.

Perplexedly yours,
Slim

[cfitz]

There seem to be a fair number of people who have had some sort of trouble with IAA when it comes to optical drives. If anyone is having mysterious trouble and is running IAA, it is probably worth uninstalling it to see if that makes things better. Be sure to reboot and then reset the IDE transfer mode of your drives to DMA after uninstalling IAA. If you are having trouble resetting DMA, check the FAQs:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7625
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6645

Particularly note the tip about deleting a troublesome IDE channel and allowing Windows to reinstall it.

In your case, Slim, I believe it was IAA that reset your drive to PIO mode when you uninstalled it, and that's why your burn speed was limited and your CPU was maxed out. Try those FAQs I mentioned. And then try a burn where you don't have to convert from mp3. Converting from mp3 doesn't take all that much CPU (converting to mp3 is the more intensive task), but it would still be good to remove that uncontrolled variable from the experiments.

Don't worry about the master/slave thing. Your drive should be able to function as either, despite what the instructions sheet states. My Memorex 48MAXX runs as slave just fine. I think the instruction sheet directs you to set the drive to master because they don't want to add to the confusion of newbies by giving them more choices.

Also, although the names might lead you to suspect otherwise, these days there really isn't any magic difference between master and slave. The settings just distinguish between the two drives on the bus and determine boot order. Your hard drive = master, CD-RW = slave setup is functional, although I do wonder what other devices you have attached to your IDE channels that led you to choose this setup. With just one hard drive and one optical drive, I would put each as master on its own IDE channel. Could you tell us your complete setup?

As for your packet writing troubles, I would say it is more likely that you are simply suffering from the too-common plague of packet writing software bugs and/or poor quality CD-RW media. I don't think your failure had anything to do with the type of files you were copying.

cfitz

[cfitz]

By the way, if you do want to use 24x CD-RW, the consensus is that Verbatim makes the best quality. And you don't have to pay $3-$5 a pop. You can get a package of 5 for $7, or a package of 10 for $13, both from Office Depot/Tech Depot/Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B00006OX3W
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... B00006OX40

cfitz

[dodecahedron]

things went well for a lot of files and it froze, completely, and I had to reset. After reboot, I examined the CD and didn't see the files that had apparently copied OK. There was some stuff I didn't recognize and worse yet the file structure was no longer UDF.

don't know exactly what first caused the problem.

however with packet-writing, if the computer crashes you often lose your data and mess up the CDRW disc.
it has to exit cleanly. that's why with InCD you can only eject using the system tray icon, not the eject button.

InCD has to write to the disc some info about the files that were written to the disc/erased/overwritten, update the Table of Contents. if the comp crashes this info isn't written then the disc might very well be unreadable.

one of the dangers inherent to packet writing.

[CowboySlim]

Thanks for the replies cfitz and doce,

Before reading these, I looked some more and ran another test.

Double checked the install sheet that comes in the Memorex CD-RW box. Definitely says: Must be Secondary Master.
Then another dumb thing: Launched the bundled Ahead CD and READ the pdf file! The jumpering, drive configuration info is totally conventional and consistent with PCHAIN II, OK to jumper as slave. Switched jumpers to HDD as SM and CD-RW as SS. Everything looks OK, HDD at DMA5 and CD-RW at DMA2. No more PIO; I'm more convinced that PIO came from IAA (now uninstalled) and that IAA should never be installed.

Reran the packet writing D&D copy. Yes, it must have started to execute an install file. Somehow the freshly UDF formatted rewriteable CD got reformatted to CDFS, erasing the just copied files and installed the Ahead EASYwriter stuff so now it autoplays upon insertion into the drive as if I want to install EASYwriter. AMAZING

Good scoop on getting the media, cfitz. Yamaha 24x, CD-RW is $5 at Fry's. I'll get some because sometimes it is convenient and.............

I think that it is OK in general to use InCD to D&D stuff like *.doc, *.xls, *.mp3, *.jpg and benign stuff like that. It was the executable or autorun that got me. I'm going to test again D&Ding a file at a time until I see it.

Slim

[KCK]

CowboySlim:

This concerns only your latest experiments with InCD.

Apparently InCD was working fine with your Yamaha drive. Were you also running the MusicMatch JukeBox upgrade at that time? Did you install other burning programs or plugins after replacing the Yamaha drive with the Memorex drive?

As for your Saturday issue, I guess your system froze because of a writing error, and thus the disc was not "finished". Hence after rebooting the disc was no longer recognized as a formatted one, and you saw the files used for installing EasyWriteReader. InCD puts these files on every formatted disc so that when the disc is inserted into a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive on a box whose system doesn't recognize the disc, you are asked to install EasyWriteReader. (These files are hidden otherwise.)

In this case, you should have reformatted the disc, preferably after doing Full Erase in Nero| Recorder| EraseReWritable.

You should not worry about the type of files you are copying. To prevent Autorun/AutoPlay from kicking in, keep the Shift key pressed down when you insert an InCD disc in your drive, until the disc is recognized.

If you still have problems with better CD-RW media, tell us which version of Windows you are running. For W2K, take a look at

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php ... adid=64787

A similar guide for XP is coming "real soon".

[CowboySlim]

dodecahedron & cfitz:
Found the culprit that started during the D&D and changed the format from UDF to CDFS: PowerChutePersonalEdition.exe that has to do with installing the S/W for my APC BackUPS.

dodecahedron:
Was aware that you couldn't eject a CD-RW with the button. However, forgot that and pushed it anyway. Now works! After the push, InCD gives a confirm screen and says it will take about a minute to do the TOC. If you confirm, about a minute the tray opens. I'm using the latest: InCD35200b. Must be new in that update - try it.

cfitz: config is now arranged the way I think it should be. If you think otherwise, let me know.
PM: 40Gb HDD, ATA100, 7200RPM, 2MB, Set to DMA5
SM: 40Gb HDD, ATA100, 7200RPM, 2MB, Set to DMA5
PS: None, In my daughters machine.
SS: Memorex CD-RW, 52x/24x/52x, Set DMA2

PM: Primary Partition is my normal bootable with Windows XP Home and all my App's and utilities; Logical Partition #1, photos; Logical Partition #2, mp3s (C&W, of course); Logical Partition #4, a file backup of the SM bootable primary partition made with Dantz Retrospect (for restore from this primary channel HDD in case I crash the bootable on the secondary channel HDD).

SM: Primary Partition is my emergency bootable with Windows XP Home and minimal App's and utilities; Logical Partition #1, a file backup of the PM bootable primary partition made with Dantz Retrospect (for restore from this secondary channel HDD in case I crash the bootable on the primary channel HDD); Logical Partition #2,??? Any ideas; Logical Partition #4, empty too.

So my Concept of Operations (that's DoD lingo) is:
1. file backups of the primary, bootable partition as required from PM HDD to SM HDD logical partition
2. occasional reverse backup of 1.
3. Making CD-As from PM to SS
4. Saving photos to CD-Rs with Nero from PM to SS for children & grandchildren
5. Occaisonal Back-ups & copies from PM to SS with InCD
6. Those tests without the mp3 conversion that you suggest

Wow, that's a lot! As soon as Buddha posts tomorrows HOT DEALS, I'll get some more CD-R media (and I'll get the CD-RW media that you put me on, cfitz, thanks)
Great Service on the Deals, Buddha, THANKS!

Nevertheless, Buddha, you're not taking my fun away. I'm still getting up at 5:30AM, PST, to run out to my driveway and get the LA Times & OC Register. And if you've already posted tonight - I'm not gonna' peek.

Check this:

http://home.att.net/~cowboyslim/index.html

Later, folks,
Slim

[cfitz]

Your IDE setup sounds fine (except for that really long cable to your daughter's computer... )

Check this:

http://home.att.net/~cowboyslim/index.html

Now that's just not right!

cfitz

[KCK]

CowboySlim:

Please correct me if I am wrong: XP can't start running an exe file when this file is D&D-ed to any drive. It's another story that XP may run an executable file on an inserted disc when AutoPlay is configured to take such action. Further, I doubt that programs such as your PowerChute installer could reformat a disc. So please read my former post.

As for ejecting an InCD disc via a burner's button, it may work for a particular burner and OS version, but as far as I know, this feature has not been endorsed officially by Ahead. In other words, you may use it at your own risk!

[CowboySlim]

Well, KCK,

As I said about 40 lines up, AMAZING!

Actually, I thought that I was being experimentally rigorous. I reformatted to UDF prior to each D&D. I started with a drag of a folder with numerous subfolder and files. I then dragged a folder at a time until it froze. Then I dragged a file at a time until it froze. When I isolated that PowerChute.......exe, I repeated. After each freeze and reboot, I checked the CD-RW for format and the files installed on it, which were never part of the drag - they must have been installed there when the .exe exe'd, and they were the same, and the format was always CDFS. Then I reformatted to UDF and repeated.

I dunno' man, I just got here myself! (A line from Mad Max)

I have no hypotheses, but I'm sure that I have given an accurate representation of my observations.

Check Buddhas HOT DEALs, when you see the APC Back-UPS ES350, nail it!

8:50 PM, PDT
Good night all,
Slim

[KCK]

CowboySlim:

OK, to dispel any doubts, could you run the following simple test? (To avoid ambiguities, it will take much more time for me to describe details than for you to run it.)

First, tell us what Nero InfoTool| Configuration says about Autorun for your burner.

Second, right-click on the InCD icon and select InCD Property Sheet| InCD Page Settings to see whether the option "Format disc to CD-MRW" is checked. (BTW, tell us if you used Mt. Rainier in your previous runs.)

Third, take a fresh CD-RW disc (if you don't have any, call up Nero| Recorder| EraseReWritable and do Full Erase on a previously used disc) and call InCD to format it. At the end, you should see the InCD message "The disc was mounted in InCD UDF file format"; if not, tell us what happens.

Finally, drag & drop PowerChutePersonalEdition.exe from your HDD to the burner drive; I'm assuming that you do this via Windows Explorer, but correct me if I'm wrong. Now, if Explorer hangs, try to eject the disc via the InCD icon first, then via the burner's button, and reboot. (Alternatively, if the disc isn't ejected, after shutting down, you could try to eject it by pushing a wire into the small hole on the burner's faceplate.)

After rebooting, re-insert the disc if necessary, keeping the Shift key pressed long enough to prevent AutoPlay, and report whether the InCD mounted message appears. Then tell us what Explorer shows as the discs's contents; you may also run the dir command for your drive in a Command Prompt window (Start| Programs| Accesories), and post your results here.

As for the file system, for a non-MRW disc, if InCD mounts the disc then InCD Page Information shows File system: FS_UDF, whereas if the disc is ejected, Nero| Recorder| Medium Info is called, the disc is inserted, and the Refresh button is clicked, it shows UDF (mode 2). In contrast, for a CD-MRW disc, InCD Page Information also has File system: FS_UDF but Type: CD-MRW media, whereas Nero| Recorder| Medium Info reports Mount Rainier: MRW Disc completely formatted.

Frankly, all your InCD reports look really weird to me, but maybe you have discovered some unknown bugs. So, to help other users, please describe your findings in more detail.

[CowboySlim]

I'll do that, but since I expect it crash me out, I'll print out the test procedure, logoff and post later.

Should get to Best Buy for those Fujis, too.

Later,
Slim