Media Compatibility With CD-RW Drives - Which Media Is Best?

[BodHack]

Just a brief note to ask for the entry for the InfoDisc CDRWs to be changed to a failure case, as one of them can no longer be read and I've not provoked such behaviour - wouldn't want anyone to think that these discs are actually any good!

Thanks

Ricoh MP7060A, Firmware 1.80
Generic CDRW/ID 4x......--

[Tolyngee]

I thought I had?

You thought wrong. You just posted some generalities with lots of "assume", "appear", "better", "dunno" and "???" scattered throughout. You didn't post any hard data following the testing protocol for this thread.

One eror-free burn at a certain speed is considered "hard data?"

All the cd-r that I have used to date has gone through the specified testing though; that's how I know on the ones I have used.

I'll gladly (for my own sake) do it on the other media once I use 'em.

But anticipating/expecting certain results based on previous experience and media rating doesn't seem off in left field to me.

But, that is okay, we all have different views.

We all have our own unique buttholes.

[cfitz]

One eror-free burn at a certain speed is considered "hard data?"

Yes it is hard data, albeit limited data. And it is unquestionably harder data than that provided by mere supposition.

You might want to read through some of my earlier postings on this thread where I point out some of its shortcomings. I'm not naive enough to believe that the data collected here provide the definitive, final answer on media/drive performance. The experiments are limited, and not well controlled. But under the circumstances, I feel they are the best we can collectively do. Certainly they are better than nothing - at least providing some initial data and trend information.

If you think that you can create a more comprehensive, better tested database, then please feel free to do so. It could certainly be done if one were willing to apply the required effort. And if you are the person to do so, I, and I imagine many others, would welcome your efforts.

cfitz

[Spazmogen]

** This post has been updated by Spazmogen to reflect Smart Burn **

Here's what I've gathered so far. All were pretty good, but then the LG can burn almost anything flawlessly. The only exception was the Memorex 700mb 4x cd-rw from Info Disc. See picture below.

Memorex: Gold 74 Minute
ATIP: 97m 26s 66f
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 658.89MB (75m 00s 00f / LBA: 337350)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 40X

Smart & Friendly 74 Minute BRANDED
ATIP: 97m 32s 19f
Disc Manufacturer: Prodisc Technology Inc.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 654.49MB (74m 30s 00f / LBA: 335100)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X

Smart & Friendly 74 Minute UNBRANDED
ATIP: 97m 26s 61f
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Assumed Dye type: Cyanine (Type 1)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 657.42MB (74m 50s 01f / LBA: 336601)

Silver Generic Blanks 80 Minutes (700mb)
ATIP: 97m 28s 60f
Disc Manufacturer: Friendly CD-Tek Co.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

Here's the Smart Burn information:
This Disc is designed for Consumer Audio Recorder (Low Speed).
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 28s 60f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = Unknown
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 12X
I always thought these were some of the best discs' I'd ever tried

Veratim 74 Minute CD-RW 10X RW
ATIP: 97m 34s 23f
Disc Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Chemicals Corp.
Reflective layer: Phase change
Media type: CD-ReWritable
Recording Speeds: min. 4X - max. 8X
nominal Capacity: 656.40MB (74m 43s 00f / LBA: 336075)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 12X

PNY 80 Minutes (700mb) Package of 110 (From Best Buy in USA)
ATIP: 97m 27s 06f
Disc Manufacturer: Digital Storage Technology Co., Ltd.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 40X I confirmed a 40x burn too!

"Ritek" 80 Minutes (700mb) Spindle of 100 from: http://www.yesbuy.net rated 24x
ATIP: 97m 18s 06f
Disc Manufacturer: Unknown Disc Identification Code
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)
**They are not Ritek, but still ok quality**

Here's the Smart Burn Window Information:
This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 18s 06f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = CURSOR, PNY
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 32X

Memorex CD-RW 2X 74 Minute
ATIP: 97m 24s 60f
Disc Manufacturer: Harmonic Hall Optical Disc, Ltd.
Reflective layer: Phase change
Media type: CD-ReWritable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. 4X
nominal Capacity: 657.42MB (74m 50s 00f / LBA: 336600)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 4X

Ricoh CD-RW 2X 74 Minute
ATIP: 97m 27s 00f
Disc Manufacturer: Disc ID not allowed
Reflective layer: Phase change
Media type: CD-ReWritable
Recording Speeds: min. 2X - max. 2X
nominal Capacity: 651.86MB (74m 12s 00f / LBA: 333750)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 2X

SKY 99 Minute CD-R 870MB 16X
ATIP: 96m 43s 33f
Disc Manufacturer: Unknown Disc Identification Code
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)
Smart Burn CHOKED ON THIS 99 MINUTE DISC.

Memorex 80 Minutes (700mb) CD-RW- HORRIBLE AVOID AT ALL COSTS
ATIP: 97m 25s 30f
Disc Manufacturer: InfoDisc Technology Co., Ltd.
Reflective layer: Phase change
Media type: CD-ReWritable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 4X


Sylvania 700mb 24x rated
ATIP: 97m 26s 66f
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X Worked at 52x !

Sony 650mb 16x Rated
ATIP: 97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Assumed Dye type: Cyanine (Type 1)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 656.40MB (74m 43s 00f / LBA: 336075)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 16X

Pacific Digital 16x UNBRANDED 700mb
ATIP: 97m 26s 60f
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Assumed Dye type: Cyanine (Type 0)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)
Smart Burn: I couldn't find one. I've used too many generic blanks!

Maxell 650mb Rated 12x
ATIP: 97m 25s 22f
Disc Manufacturer: Hitachi Maxell, Ltd.
Assumed Dye type: Cyanine (Type 2)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 654.49MB (74m 30s 00f / LBA: 335100)
Smart Burn: I couldn't find it. I only ever had 1 disc.

Smart Buy 16x Rated 700mb
ATIP: 97m 32s 19f
Disc Manufacturer: Prodisc Technology Inc.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 40X

LG 16x Branded 650mb
ATIP: 97m 32s 19f
Disc Manufacturer: Prodisc Technology Inc.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 654.49MB (74m 30s 00f / LBA: 335100)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X Tested &PASSED! (Just disable Smart Burn).

Here's the LG cd-r CD Quality check:

Smart Burn interfered with the burn by slowing it down near the end.
Now the burn got up to just about 40x, then dropped back to 24x for the last 10 seconds. There is a noticeible line on the outer edge of the disc where the speed changed from 40x down to 24x. I disabled Smart Burn and tried again. Excellent result at 52x for a 16x disc!

Lite On 24x CD-RW
ATIP: 97m 27s 12f
Disc Manufacturer: Plasmon Data Systems, Ltd.
Reflective layer: Phase change
Media type: CD-ReWritable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 656.10MB (74m 41s 00f / LBA: 335925)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 24X

Lite On 52x CD-R
ATIP: 97m 26s 66f
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.82MB (79m 59s 71f / LBA: 359846)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X tested and confirmed error free @ 52x !

[cfitz]

At what speed(s) did you succesfully burn all those without any errors? We are looking for the maximum speed at which the media can be burned with no errors.

Excellent quality, but they are UGLY !

I don't know about that. I kinda' like that bug dude. And the bright colors are cheerful. Much nicer looking than the Mitsui 80 min media.

cfitz

[Spazmogen]

The discs were all burned at full speed- 16x for CD-R's. CD-RW's at their full rated speeds, either 2x, 4x or 10x.

The 4x Memorex CD-RW with all of the errors was screwed up. I tried every possible speed 1x - 4x.


I've updated my post above to reflect my Lite On 52x24x52x drive which replaced my Lg 16x10x40x.

[cfitz]

Thanks for your contributions, Spazmogen.

cfitz

[dodecahedron]

what a wonderful picture!

[Spazmogen]

what a wonderful picture!

Yeah.

That's a Memorex 4x CD-RW with 701mb of mp3's on it. Burned with CloneCD. CloneCD reported no errors. Nero choked on it after I erased it. It wouldn't even burn it 50%. But I could erase it and CloneCD would write to the whole disc again. Same results. The dye is screwed.

Memorex 80 Minutes (700mb) CD-RW- HORRIBLE AVOID AT ALL COSTS
ATIP: 97m 25s 30f
Disc Manufacturer: InfoDisc Technology Co., Ltd.
Reflective layer: Phase change
Media type: CD-ReWritable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)


That's them in all their glory.

Memorex should be ashamed to be still selling them!

[TheWizard]

Thanks for your contributions, Spazmogen.

cfitz

Hey! I'm supposed to say that! Well, thanks to both of you: Spazmogen and cfitz.

Questions for you Spazmogen: Do you know the rated speeds of the Memorex Gold, Smart & Friendly (both branded and unbranded), and the unbranded silver discs? And, what firmware version did you use for these burn results?

One comment about the Ritek discs you bought at Yesbuy.net, I bet they are Riteks because I have run into the same problem as you with CDR Identifier; it does not recognize certain discs that are, in fact, Ritek. Keep in mind, CDR Identifier is old software. Furthermore, I don't think resellers like Yesbuy.net could sell "Ritek" discs if they weren't indeed Ritek, that would be false advertising, and that's a big no-no.

[cfitz]

Thanks for your contributions, Spazmogen.

cfitz

Hey! I'm supposed to say that! Well, thanks to both of you: Spazmogen and cfitz.

Sorry TheWizard, didn't mean to step on any toes

Consider my 'thanks' to be the unofficial thanks from a reader of this thread who also welcomes contributions, rather than the official thanks from the originator and maintainer.

cfitz

[TheWizard]

You're a good guy, cfitz, I appreciate it.

[Jovo]

Discovered some great media today - white glossy surface no markings. According to Smart-burn they are made by Hitachi Maxell. Although the distributor rated them at 40x, they actually burn at very happily at 52x.

This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 25s 29f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = hitachi maxell
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X

According to CDSpeed:
Start: 23.19
Finish: 52.25
Average: 39.56.

So far I have burned 6 with not one error evident. In fact, to date they have to be the best and cheapest 52x media available here for . The previous batch, which I bought a few weeks ago looked identical, but was made by Acer Media and occassionaly struggled and was some seconds slower in a full burn.

[TheWizard]

Good deal, Jovo, thanks.

I take it you are using the Lite-On 52X24X52 drive to do the burns, right? Furthermore, what firmware version are you using?

When you get a chance, post more media compatability results for the Lite-On 52X24X52 please!

[Jovo]

Removed by Jovo

[eliminator]

Discovered some great media today - white glossy surface no markings. According to Smart-burn they are made by Hitachi Maxell. Although the distributor rated them at 40x, they actually burn at very happily at 52x.

This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Phthalocyanine
ATIP Lead-in = 97m 25s 29f
Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f)
Disc Manufacturer maybe = hitachi maxell
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X

According to CDSpeed:
Start: 23.19
Finish: 52.25
Average: 39.56.

So far I have burned 6 with not one error evident. In fact, to date they have to be the best and cheapest 52x media available here for . The previous batch, which I bought a few weeks ago looked identical, but was made by Acer Media and occassionaly struggled and was some seconds slower in a full burn.

Are those Maxells a taiwanese product ?

[Jovo]

Are those Maxells a taiwanese product ?

It does not say, there are no identification markings. They come wrapped in clear plastic in bundles of 10s, 50s and 100s. I suspect they are either Taiwanese or Chinese.

[TheWizard]

Your table is all well and good, Jovo, but it doesn't prove media compatability, but rather just the maximum (supposed) writing speed. Have you tested all those blank CD's and actually recorded them in said drives? If so, what is their maximum successful burn speed with zero errors? It may be a pain, but you'll need to use CD Speed's ScanDisc to check the errors on all the media.

[Jovo]

The table lists the actual burn speeds achieved but rounded of to the nearest whole number. If Scandisk indicated more than 2 yellow boxes I reburned at a lower speed and noted that figure. The table works for me although I no longer use the LTR48125W - only the 52246S.

[TheWizard]

Disk brand and Claimed speed: Possible Manufacturer: Real speed VS06: Real speed VS08: LTR 48126S as 52246S 6S02
Sony 700Mb 32x: LeadData: 31x: 31x: 31x:

OK, but that's still very confusing. For example, how do I know what speed you burned the disc above at successfully? You may have burned it at 48X, but the CD only reached a maximum speed of 31X. Or did you burn them at 32X and the CD reached a maximum speed of 31X?

To simplify the matter, please tell me what speed you burned the CD's at in Nero, EZ CD Creator, or what have you (this will be a number like 32X, 40X, 48X) not the actual speed that the disc reached.

[cfitz]

If Scandisk indicated more than 2 yellow boxes I reburned at a lower speed and noted that figure.

Unfortunately your tests do not adhere to the testing criteria for this list: Maximum burn speed with 0 errors (i.e. no yellow boxes).

I'm not saying your testing method is wrong, just that it is different than all the other tests included here.

cfitz

[Jovo]

To take the Sony example: I used Nero 5.5.9.14 and Smartburn 2.1. If Smartburn indicated a max speed of 32, I burned at that speed and watched both the max speed Nero achieved and whether there was any problem, ie if the indicator light went from red to orange. If that did occur I tried burning at a lower speed.

I think we are all aware of the inaccuracy of Scandisk - a further scan generally produces a different result. I have included the results since a subsequent scan with CDCheck produced zero errors.

[cfitz]

I think we are all aware of the inaccuracy of Scandisk - a further scan generally produces a different result.

No, we are not all aware of this supposed "inaccuracy". The slight variability in results is not an indication of inaccuracy. It is simply a reflection of the statistical nature of the noise processes that lead to read errors.

I have included the results since a subsequent scan with CDCheck produced zero errors.

A CDCheck scan with zero errors isn't terribly meaningful. It just means there aren't any massive errors on the CD-R. Lower-level, ECC correctable errors never make it to CDCheck but can be detected by CDSpeed's disc scan. By the time you see errors on CDCheck, you will be seeing red (unreadable) sectors on CDSpeed's disc scan.

There are even lower level errors that CDSpeed can't detect but that are detectable by software such as WSES.

cfitz

[TheWizard]

To take the Sony example: I used Nero 5.5.9.14 and Smartburn 2.1. If Smartburn indicated a max speed of 32, I burned at that speed and watched both the max speed Nero achieved and whether there was any problem, ie if the indicator light went from red to orange. If that did occur I tried burning at a lower speed.

Very well, then the Sony discs made by Lead Data you burned successfully at 32X, that's all I needed to know. Now, I ask that you please go over the other entries and tell me the burn speed (in Nero) that you successfully each CD at. That is, if you indeed want your results to be included in the list on the first page of this thread.

By the way, say hello to the Kimberleys (yes, the mountains) for me.

[Jovo]

Now, I ask that you please go over the other entries and tell me the burn speed (in Nero) that you successfully each CD at. That is, if you indeed want your results to be included in the list on the first page of this thread.

I assumed that you would understand that by pointing to the way the Sony data was gathered that it applied to all the data listed in the table.