HD-BURN Technology!

[coolestnitish]

Hi everyone,
I was just wondering about this exciting new technology developed by Sanyo which makes it possible to fit 1.4 gb on 1 CD!!!
Well, will all burners be able to do that? Will they require new firmwares? Which companies will actually care to put this in their burners? What kind of media will have to be used? Any new burners coming out with this technology already in them? Sorry loadsa questions.

[BatGnat]

We can only hope that it will be a firmware patch.
But in reality, it propbably will be a hardware change.

I wonder how they get around the CD 100min limit.
The only other annoying thing about it is all drives (CD/DVD/CDR/CDRW) that we currently own will need to support reading this type of disc aswell. I cant see it being compatible with anything but it's own burner.

[Ian]

Yeah, it says it will first be seen on their Super Combination Drives, the CRD-BPDV2 or whatever.

It sounds to me like this is a new format. Of course, they could be using compression. Didn't someone try that a few years ago? Fit 1GB onto a 74minute disc or something?

[coolcdrman]

BatGnat,

I think you hit it right on the nail; as long as the current install base of CD-ROMs/CD-RW drive cannot read the format this technology DOA.

Sony tried with 'Double Density' - Failed!
TDK/Plextor tried with 'ML (Multi-Level)' - Failed!

IMO - This will exclusively become desktop technology - not an industry wide technology. DVD-optical recording is the only true replacement for CD-R/W.

Then again, we should never doubt Sanyo's marketing efforts - after all they sold Burn Proof to the optical recording industy at a time when CPUs became powerful enough to sustain reliable throughputs (even on the ATAPI bus).

[coolestnitish]

is it possible its just using compression?!?!? there sure will be some issues then with quality of the burn. it sounds to me like this is a tactic to sell more drives and isn't really worth buyingl. if they are talking about using the average media to burn, then there must be some negative aspects to it too. i wish i knew more about how this thing will work.

[Ian]

here's some more info on it.. in Japanese:

http://www.digital-sanyo.com/BURN-Proof ... ure-j.html

Check out the support its getting:



Pictures of the new drive:





Me no speaka Japanese... but I see a 976MB CD.



All those pictures and more can be found here:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/pc/docs/ ... /sanyo.htm

[Ian]

here's a good picture of what HD-Burn is doing. The pits are smaller than what is normally used on a CD-ROM.

[cdrfreak]

Sony tried with 'Double Density' - Failed!
TDK/Plextor tried with 'ML (Multi-Level)' - Failed!

The advantage of this HD-Burn stuff is that you don't need any special discs. Burning 1.4GB on a (almost) free CD-R sounds too good to be true
I don't think they're using compression because they specifically mention VideoCD's. You can't compress VideoCD's because they require a constant bitrate.

btw. what's a Plexter?

[Ian]

No its not compression. The pits have been shrunk down. They're not quite as small as a DVD, but about 1/3 smaller than a CD.

[coolcdrman]

cdrfreak,

I totally agreement with you - burning 1.4G on a industry standard CD-R sound great; I would also greet such increased capacity with open arms.

However, I believe compatibility remains a much larger issue. Unless I missed something, I don’t believe the current install base of optical drives will read disc written in HD format. With that in mind, I don’t foresee the world rushing to retrofit over 160 million PCs with CD-ROMs that are HD compatible.

Personally, I will sooner purchase a DVD burner.

However, I am only one user; there are many others to whom they can sell their technology. Ultimately the masses with decide its acceptance.

[Ian]

The CRD-BPDV2 is a DVD burner. I think of HD BURN as an additional feature.

Put it this way. If you had 1.2GB of data to back up (a true backup.. you'd probably read it back with the CRD-BPDV2 too). Would you use a DVD that costs $1-$5 or a 25 cent CD?

[Matt]

Is there info on what will be able to read it? I would imagine you would need something that can read the smaller laser pitch. I don't think we've heard a peep about multi-layer in months so it seems that idea went right out the window as an interim until a dvd standard is met. I can't wait till we start getting the unified chipsets in... w00t.

[coolcdrman]

Ian,

Thanks for the clarification regarding the drive's DVD capabilities.

In the example you just provided I agree – It would be more practical to use the HD format and a less expensive CD-R media. However, the point I’m making is the one you just defined, this will remain a desktop technology (for use only with PCs that have HD burners installed) unless there’s a widespread of readers to support the format.

Looking forward, I believe a more practical question should be: If you have 1.2G of data that requires backup and you intend to read the information with another optical reader are you going to use DVD-R/+R or a standard disc using the HD format?

Also, looking forward, I believe the price of DVD-R/+R media will continue to drop.

[Ian]

Is there info on what will be able to read it? I would imagine you would need something that can read the smaller laser pitch. I don't think we've heard a peep about multi-layer in months so it seems that idea went right out the window as an interim until a dvd standard is met. I can't wait till we start getting the unified chipsets in... w00t.

Yeah.. ML technology is dead as far as the CD goes. They are planning on applying it to DVD's now. Let's just say I'll believe it when I see it.

As coolcdrman brought up, backwards compatibility is the key. Supposedly some DVD players will be able to read them (DVD-ROM's too?) with a firmware update, but I haven't heard a peep about CD-ROM's. Probably not, due to the smaller pits.

[Robotnik]

I think this technology is out way too late in the twilight of the CD-ROM age to be of any real use. If it came out 2-3yrs ago it would have been brilliant. Kinda like the update for LS-120 superdiscs (LS-240?) which also lets you store ~20MB on a single 1.44MB floppy - 5yrs too late.

[Graffitti]

here's a good picture of what HD-Burn is doing. The pits are smaller than what is normally used on a CD-ROM.

From the image, they've also reduced the amount of Error Correction Code.

[BatGnat]

Whats are the chances that they are using the DVD laser and not the CDR/CDRW laser to acheive these results.

If they are compatibility across DVD players might be possible.....?

[Ian]

They've said it is possible, but the DVD player might need a firmware update.

[Action Jackson]

For compatibility, will a DVD-ROM be able to read those smaller pits?

If so, then it could be something as simple as a program like UDF reader or the INCD equivalent being used to read those HD cds.

[coolestnitish]

Till now, the way people have descirbed this technology, I don't like the compatibility issues with it. I agree that Sanyo has been too late with bringing this out. DVD Writing revolution has already started. As stated in the news section yesterday, NEC and Sony have drives which will write to CDs and both formats of DVDs! I am myself going to be buying such a drive in a couple of months.
CDs are still going to be here for a long time (look at the floppy) but definitely the manufacturers are lowering prices of DVD writers like crazy. And wait till Christmas is here, prices will fall massively.
Does anyone have an idea when this HD technology will be out in the market on a drive?

[eliminator]

Thanks Ian - nice pics, that unit is still the same ole Sanyo design - just like my 1700B 40x12x48 burner

[Kennyshin]

I think this technology is out way too late in the twilight of the CD-ROM age to be of any real use. If it came out 2-3yrs ago it would have been brilliant. Kinda like the update for LS-120 superdiscs (LS-240?) which also lets you store ~20MB on a single 1.44MB floppy - 5yrs too late.

CD-R manufacturers are producing BILLIONS of 700MB media each year now. Who knows? The number could be 10 billion in 2004. All of the largest CD-R drive manufacturers are NOT going to discontinue CD-R drive production. They are increasing it, not decreasing.

Anyway, I think of this Sanyo CRD-DV2 product as one of the first 4x DVD+R writers, not as an enhanced version of CD writers.

Hm... btw, one of my friends are going to live in Auckland, NZ. He'll leave Seoul next year with some other people. Since he's not good at English, I'm helping him somewhat...

[EatMoreChicken]

Was the CRD-DV1 ever released? It was suppose to be out by summer and have the same features.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=2351

[EatMoreChicken]

Here's an e-mail I got from Sanyo:

Dear Mr.XXX

Thank you for being indebted usually.
Thank you for being attached to HD-BURN technology and asking.
Our company performs the spread activities of this HD-BURN technology.
Please look at the following homepage.
www.burn-proof.com

Moreover, the drive business of our company is only OEM business.
General customer and agency sale is omitted.
In a visitor's hope of OEM business, I will have a business talk separately.
Please understand the situation. I would appreciate your favor in the future.
Our OEM maker will release Drive with HD-BURN technology at 2003.Q1 to the market.

Best Regards,
Miyoshi
smiyoshi@infopd.sanyo.co.jp

=======================================

Here's a link w/ more details:
http://www.digital-sanyo.com/BURN-Proof ... index.html

So how are consumers able to get this drive if it's only OEM? Hopefully one of the larger companies adopts it. It would be great if Cendyne uses it, they always have great rebates!

[Ian]

They'll sell the drive to other companies and they'll sell it under their brand. Thats what Sanyo has done in the past.