Fearfull results with TY media. (BAD BONDING )

[RJW]

Some people seem to think that C't made a mistake because of the bad score in the longlivety test.
Well if C't disc's were just as bad bonded as the followeing then it suprised how good it performed still.

Today I noticed some space between the 2 layers. So I put a little stress on it with a screwdriver and I know have some FUJI TY's in 2 pieces.

Bad bonding would have speeded the diffusion of water in the ageing test much makeing this media not good for archiveing. (These type of errors would cause that a NIST test to be so time consumeing. Is this error a incident ? A larger incident ? or a real TY problem ?. As you can see you would have to use quite some ammounts to get a statistical reliable answer for that. )

Also this fact probally falls not under waranty because the disc's could have worked normally for some months.

So for all people who archive important stuff on any media.
Allways check the bonding quality.
ALLWAYS check if there's space between the layers. Press the layers in the center hub slightly to each other if you hear a squeeking noice then do not use this disc for long time storrage !!!

For the unbelievers here is a nice composition. As you can see it is TY GD00 can roughly be spotted if you look well (enlarge it) just at the heigth of Fuji's up to 4x.

[Ian]

Ughh.. that's not good. How long have you had those discs?

[RJW]

The package was opened today. It has probally sitting at my home for a year.
It wasn't burned. I allways check befor burning if there's space between the layers. If there is then it won't be used for any important stuff.

So far I only had bonding problems befor with cheap hongkong stuff I burned for third parties and now a few of these FUJI TY's.

[Ian]

I wonder how old they were before you bought them.

[RJW]

I can check up when the store got this stock. That's no problem.

However you probally want to know when TY made them.
Which would be much harder to track but might not be that impossible if we can live with a rough estimate.

Also a friend of me has the same problem with his FUJI 8x DVD-R by Taiyo yuden.

[dolphinius_rex]

I've had the same problem with a batch of Maxell 8x DVD-Rs before (Japanese!).

Still, this does not bode well for Taiyo Yuden... Have you contacted their office in Europe yet?

[[buck]]

I've had the same problem with a batch of Maxell 8x DVD-Rs before (Japanese!).

I've had that problem with Jap Maxells in SEVERAL batches!

[Gabe]

I've had the same problem with a batch of Maxell 8x DVD-Rs before (Japanese!).

I've had that problem with Jap Maxells in SEVERAL batches!

You guys mean Maxell from TY or Maxell in general

In c´t TY +R 8x looks good, -R 8x bad. So the +R don´t have this problem.

BTW, TY DVD-R 16x seems to have a very good stability

[hoxlund]

dude that actually looks kickass

[aviationwiz]

Wow, that's like when in Chemistry class, a test tube literally fell apart when we set it down gently in the drawer. It just fell apart, and it was like a clean cut.

[[buck]]

I've had the same problem with a batch of Maxell 8x DVD-Rs before (Japanese!).

I've had that problem with Jap Maxells in SEVERAL batches!

You guys mean Maxell from TY or Maxell in general

In c´t TY +R 8x looks good, -R 8x bad. So the +R don´t have this problem.

BTW, TY DVD-R 16x seems to have a very good stability

I mean Maxell-coded Maxells. I've had a couple spindles where, at least some of the discs, weren't bonded until like a centimetre into the hub, ie you the color was noticibly different, it had to be air.

I've also had discs with just tiny bubbles around the hub. I can't say i'm terribly concerned about these, though.

[dolphinius_rex]

I mean Maxell-coded Maxells. I've had a couple spindles where, at least some of the discs, weren't bonded until like a centimetre into the hub, ie you the color was noticibly different, it had to be air.

I've also had discs with just tiny bubbles around the hub. I can't say i'm terribly concerned about these, though.

I meant the Maxell coded ones as well.

I find it interesting however, that not TOO long ago, there was a very large amount of Fuji DVD+R TY media that had horrible results... now there are Fuji DVD-Rs TY discs that are poorly bonded. Does Taiyo Yuden *HATE* Fuji?

[RJW]

In c´t TY +R 8x looks good, -R 8x bad. So the +R don´t have this problem.

BTW, TY DVD-R 16x seems to have a very good stability

C't was lucky to have a good bonded +R batch,which are most batches of TY.
But the problem also exists with +R see:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p ... tcount=136

I think this is a allmost uncontrolable problem TY has except for usseing a different bonding methode or usseing to much glue (makeing it look cheap and takeing other problems a long) I don't think it will be solved.
Also contacting will probally not help. I didn't contact Taiyo Yuden or FUJI at this time and don't expect much.

And more manufacturers have/had this problem:Maxell,Prodisc,Sky(as reports come in. I'm expecting more manufacturers to follow. ) Some hongkong stuff are at this time known.

[dolphinius_rex]

It's funny how the best names in the business (TY and Maxell) are having problems with this, when one of the worst names for quality assurence (Ritek) is known for almost NEVER having a problem like this.

I'd still take Taiyo Yuden over Ritek any day though. And I still haven't seen any non-Fuji brand poorly bonded TY discs reported. Has anyone else?

[frank1]

Among these FUJIFILM branded DVD's I have some:

DVD-R 4x:
MID code: FUJIFILM02
Prodisc S03

DVD-R 8x:
Prodisc F01

DVD+R 16x:
Philips-C16-001 with Oxonol dye developed by Fujifilm


Are some of these MID codes also kown to be concerned by this bonding problem ?

[RJW]

Not only FUJI Ty's had this problem 2x That's also had it.

This problem has been spotted on prodisc manufacturerd disc with F01 code.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p ... tcount=135

But still it would be a good idea to check all the important stuff which was supposed to last some time on media. If it has this type of failure I strongly suggest reburn !!

As soon as I found the disc back I post some other example of weird bonding.

[ETP]

So! Is there any perfect media after this goat rope! LOL
Man, I thought ty+R MIJ was perfect.LOL

[RJW]

OKay here is the second example.
This disc is made by Ritek with RICOH code. Why the result looks weird and something I won't trust for long time archiveing. I can't pull the halves from each other. There is no movement in it.
Still not sure if it are airbubbles/to much glue or a combination.

Oh and guess the brand this disc was sold under.

[RJW]

There is no perfect media. I've been saying that for a long time but people like to think it's easy.
Only thing is that Mitsubishi (and partners) and TY are just haveing less problems as others or there brands(verbatim/Plextor) have a better waranty.

[Halc]

Man oh man... I'm away for a couple of months and you guys dig up new dirt about discs to bring my hope down :)

This place is seriously detrimental to one's digital archival faith, let me tell you that.

If TY and Maxell can't be trusted for their QC either, then who are we to trust with our archival copies?

[dolphinius_rex]

Man oh man... I'm away for a couple of months and you guys dig up new dirt about discs to bring my hope down

This place is seriously detrimental to one's digital archival faith, let me tell you that.

If TY and Maxell can't be trusted for their QC either, then who are we to trust with our archival copies?

Blind faith in any company is poorly placed

But don't worry Halc, with a little careful eyework, and good planning, it's not impossible to find good media still

[Halc]

Yes, I've learned it the hard way during the past ten years or so.

However, the problem is that 99% of people doing archiving have no time to hang around in forums every day.

Even I have hard time doing it monthly these days.

Why, oh why can't anybody just STEP UP to the challenge and provide a disc that is certified by 3rd party to at least withstand accelerated aging well (humidity + temp + EMW) and have excellent QA.

These people would secure the archival market for their own.

They could charge 10 times the going price of a quality Japanese disc.

Nobody in the archival business would care, they'd just pony up the money and buy in bulk.

But nobody is doing it. Everybody is just offering diminishing quality and worsening promises about longevity.

Oh, the humanity :)

[dolphinius_rex]

Yes, I've learned it the hard way during the past ten years or so.

However, the problem is that 99% of people doing archiving have no time to hang around in forums every day.

Even I have hard time doing it monthly these days.

Why, oh why can't anybody just STEP UP to the challenge and provide a disc that is certified by 3rd party to at least withstand accelerated aging well (humidity + temp + EMW) and have excellent QA.

These people would secure the archival market for their own.

They could charge 10 times the going price of a quality Japanese disc.

Nobody in the archival business would care, they'd just pony up the money and buy in bulk.

But nobody is doing it. Everybody is just offering diminishing quality and worsening promises about longevity.

Oh, the humanity

Tried MAM's gold DVDRs yet? What about Emtec's?? I've never had a MAM disc seperate on me (although previous MAM discs have had OTHER problems...)

[Scour]

Tried MAM's gold DVDRs yet? What about Emtec's?? I've never had a MAM disc seperate on me (although previous MAM discs have had OTHER problems...)

I heard about MAM Gold-disc DVD-R 2x are awful. Not readable after one year

[dolphinius_rex]

Tried MAM's gold DVDRs yet? What about Emtec's?? I've never had a MAM disc seperate on me (although previous MAM discs have had OTHER problems...)

I heard about MAM Gold-disc DVD-R 2x are awful. Not readable after one year

MAM Gold 2x DVDRs haven't existed for a LONG time, and are completely different from MAM 4x DVD-Rs. They had to completely redesign the media (so it'd work! ). I don't know TOO much about them personally, but I've got a few samples I'll play with when I get the chance to.