Is the Liteon 1653s really **THAT** bad ?

[DavidI]

Hi all

Am looking to get a Liteon 1653S 16x DVD and from the reports around the place, it is **apparently** are real turkey / shocker ?

Anyone here have one ?

Does the latest DR16CS0C Firmware of February 4 2005 *fix* things ?

Dave

[Gabe]

Hi!

I have the 1653S but I use it mostly for burn-quality-tests, not for burning.

I burned only a few Media with the LiteOn:

Some tests are here:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18471

New tests:

Sony DVD+R 8x 4,7GB 50er Spindel Karstadt


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:SONY-D11-000]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [Sony Recording Media Co.]
Manufacturer ID : [SONY]
Media Type ID : [D11]
Product Revision : [Not Specified]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4,482.6MB = 4.38GB (4.70GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1653S @8x:

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

LG 4082 @8x:

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting




Nierle DVD-R 4x 4,7GB Reprint Orange


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:MCC 01RG20 ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Mitsubishi Chemical Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [MCC 01RG20 ]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3MB = 4.38GB (4.71GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2x , 4x]
[6x And Higher Might Not Always Be Detectable]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]

1653S @4x:

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

LG 4082@4x:

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting




Hyundai DVD-R 4x 4,7GB 25er Cakebox


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:SKC Co.,Ltd.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [SKC Co. Ltd.]
Manufacturer ID : [SKC Co.,Ltd.]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3MB = 4.38GB (4.71GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2x , 4x]
[6x And Higher Might Not Always Be Detectable]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1653S @4x:

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

Pioneer MCC @4x:

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting


It looks not bad, but I heard the problems coming when you burn media @12x or 16x.

Fact is, that the LiteOn burns to long the LeadIn with some media, sometimes it takes over 1 Minute(!!!). And it burns the Sony DVD-R 8x @12x slower than my Pioneer @8x.

[Gabe]

New test:

Platinum DVD+R 8x


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RICOHJPN-R02-003]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc Type : [DVD+R]
Manufacturer ID : [RICOHJPN]
Manufacturer Name : [Ricoh Company Ltd.]
Media Type ID : [R02]
Product Revision : [003]
Disc Application Code : [General Purpose]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
Blank Disc Capacity : [Not Supported By Method 2]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------




Looks good

[Jackass]

Hi all

Am looking to get a Liteon 1653S 16x DVD and from the reports around the place, it is **apparently** are real turkey / shocker ?

Dave

If you had asked this question on CD Freaks, you would have been banned for life.

[zebraxor]

Interesting little thread.

Whilst some feel I lost the plot long ago (usually those naive enough to be lead down the garden path), it's my strong opinion that LiteOn really never had the DVD-writing plot to begin with.

I was turned from the darkside, to the lightside about a year or so ago. I realised over time that all the problems that I had ever experienced with LiteOn hardware magically went away with each iteration of my new Pioneer hardware. One might say a good friend of mine knocked some sense into me.

I realised quite some time ago that you get what you pay for. I also found out the hard way that Japanese R & D giants become R & D giants for a VERY GOOD reason. A comparatively small TW vendor (in terms of technological outlay and development) cannot compete with the technological breakthroughs of the BIG tech-stakeholders in Japan.

Think what you will about LiteOn...to me - and the market share in this country, it all went down the plughole long ago. You are generally not taken very seriously as a vendor/wholesaler/retailer in Oz if you are seen to be promoting a LiteOn drive as a "quality" product. Once upon a midnight dreary, the department and organisation I work for would have used LiteOn drives in their equipment - now, because of the mission critical nature of the tasks these drives perform, LiteOn drives will no longer suffice.



No matter what I say, I am sure there will be people who insist on the use of second rate hardware. Meh. I guess its one of those "learning things". In time, we grow and learn. We look back on our mistakes and become more well rounded people as a result. This was my experience in the migration between LiteOn hardware from LiteOn --> NEC --> Pioneer.

[Wesociety]

Hi all

Am looking to get a Liteon 1653S 16x DVD and from the reports around the place, it is **apparently** are real turkey / shocker ?

Dave

If you had asked this question on CD Freaks, you would have been banned for life.

I don't think so...

[Wesociety]

I realised quite some time ago that you get what you pay for. I also found out the hard way that Japanese R & D giants become R & D giants for a VERY GOOD reason. A comparatively small TW vendor (in terms of technological outlay and development) cannot compete with the technological breakthroughs of the BIG tech-stakeholders in Japan.

I'm suprised that you post such generalizations.
MANY would argue that a certain TW vendor makes better drives than any Japanese company...

[Jackass]

Hi all

Am looking to get a Liteon 1653S 16x DVD and from the reports around the place, it is **apparently** are real turkey / shocker ?

Dave

If you had asked this question on CD Freaks, you would have been banned for life.

I don't think so...

You know all too well that CDFreaks is full of censorship. You ARE a moderator there aren't you?

[zebraxor]

I'm suprised that you post such generalizations.
MANY would argue that a certain TW vendor makes better drives than any Japanese company...

Well, we can agree to disagree on that one old man .

Reasoning goes into all of this, as stated in the afforementioned post. I work for very large, very critical infrastructure and technology development facilitators, with multinational clients whom are NOT the nicest people to piss off. The reliability of the latest iteration of LiteOn hardware has displeased my employers and created headaches for me. Indirectly, the reliability of LiteOn hardware HAS pissed these very important individuals off. The long and the short of this is, in the field, when there is a war going on - when every second counts and failure of one sector on any given backup medium is not an option - the equipement cannot cut the mustard. In the real world, in an industry where your competitor would no sooner cut you into strips to feed to his stupid little pet poodle, equipment of a proven lower grade cannot be considered. We just don't stand for bullsh*t.

But I digress. It's really important people understand this. We come at this from two TOTALLY different angles. I look at these things from a strictly industrial point of view. I do not consider the other aspects of the drive such as the "fun" factor or the "damn I can use hacked firmware like crazy" factor. I look at reliability, stability, track record and vendor support. I take into account the ability of companies like Pioneer, compared to companies like LiteOn to keep myself and my employers happy, when we have problems. Certainly, when we are unhappy - Pioneer are always HAPPY to provide us with every possible bit of vendor support they can. They go above and beyond the call of duty to keep their corporate clients happy. Did LiteOn do this for us? No....they did not. Did they offer any form of support when batches of their hardware were sent back defective? Nope. Not even a contingency policy/replacement/next day duty cutover. Pioneer does all this for us - and more. Granted, these services come at a price.

I guess the reality is, we argue about two totally differing things here. One is an industrial world and one is the enthusiasts market. Pricepoints may be the same - but in corporate markets, SLA's are a totally different kettle of fish.

Maybe never the twain shall meet?

[alexnoe]

I once asked Pioneer if they'd fix the problem that their older drives cannot read non-bitsetted DVD+R DL, and these d0rks told me to use DVD- instead.... nice support That was more than half a year ago

[Gabe]

I'm suprised that you post such generalizations.
MANY would argue that a certain TW vendor makes better drives than any Japanese company...

I hope you don´t think LiteOn...

I have one, it seems not to be better than Pioneer (had Pioneer, too)

[Bhairav]

Zebra and Wes, can we take the arguments down a notch? Thanks.

[Wesociety]

@Jackass, I'm no LiteOn fan, and yes I am a CDfreaks Moderator.

@Zebra, I'm no old man... yet
I suppose my post was off-topic from this thread, because it really had nothing to do with LiteOn at all...
I was trying to make the point that many people think that it is not as simple as "Japanese make better DVD writers than Taiwanese".

@Gabe, no I was not referring to LiteOn.

@Bhairav, the only argument I posted, was in response to Jackass...

[zebraxor]

Hehehe.

/me throws a wheelchair at Wes. I hear Florida is nice this time of year. LOL.

[Gabe]

@Gabe, no I was not referring to LiteOn.

Benq?

[RJW]

I'm suprised that you post such generalizations.
MANY would argue that a certain TW vendor makes better drives than any Japanese company...

Your right twice.
A there is a taiwanese companny makeing a better drive then most of it's Japanese competition. Also there is a european vendor also produceing a better drive then most of it's japanese competition. Ohh ehh the hardwares is the same.

B you can allready see the people argueing.

To gabe.
To me Benq is ahead I don't know if Wesociety thinks the same but I think you probally got the right one there.
And the european I refered to is Philips offcourse.

[jase]

Has to be said though that the only reason Benq is in the position it's in is because it has the backing of a major multinational (Philips) and that is the only reason it can compete. One day, there will be a Taiwanese major who can compete with the Japanese on an even playing field, but the TW companies are too small at present, and either rely on assistance (Benq), or produce relatively inferior product (LiteOn).

In any case, (in my experience anyway) Benq/Philips still have major issues with media compatibility, which shows that their product is still not as flexible as the Japanese stuff. And Philips gear is notoriously unreliable -- their CE DVD recorders have a lamentable record, and their general build quality can be very poor indeed -- same as the other remaining European major Thomson. I therefore still don't think Philips/Benq are quite as good as some of the Japanese manufacturers. Philips are great at developing new ideas, but their basic R&D is lacking. They've even resorted to selling rebadged LiteOn CE DVD recorders (and some more from an unknown Korean outfit) due to their inability to be competitively-priced and reliable at the same time. This, from the main developer of one of the competing DVD writing formats? Please.

In the meantime though, so what if Benq are producing a decent drive. If some nasty little backwater Chinese company was to start making Pioneers under licence, they'd be making good drives as well, but it doesn't alter the fact that they wouldn't have a clue how to make a decent unit if Pioneer hadn't got involved.

[Gabe]

New scans with:

Primedisc DVD+R 8x 4,7 GB


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RITEK-R03-002]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [Ritek Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [RITEK]
Media Type ID : [R03]
Product Revision : [002]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4,482.6MB = 4.38GB (4.70GB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1653S:



Pioneer MCC:





The Ritek´s DVD+R 8x seem to be not good media. The PIF are low, but the PI are to high, I guess. Had sometimes better results with Infosmart DVD-R 4x.

[spryfly]

Is the Liteon 1653s really **THAT** bad ?

for burning dvd's.....yes

[RJW]

Has to be said though that the only reason Benq is in the position it's in is because it has the backing of a major multinational (Philips) and that is the only reason it can compete. One day, there will be a Taiwanese major who can compete with the Japanese on an even playing field, but the TW companies are too small at present, and either rely on assistance (Benq), or produce relatively inferior product (LiteOn).

Don't forget Lite On has back -up from SONY.
Samsung from Toshiba.
Benq/ACER also from Pioneer.
Aopen from RICOH
BTC from TEAC
LIte ON from TEAC

I can make this list much longer.

I therefore still don't think Philips/Benq are quite as good as some of the Japanese manufacturers. Philips are great at developing new ideas, but their basic R&D is lacking.

1st take a look arround you might not think so but look at all facts. No drive is perfect. Some are more as others.NEC, Benq/Philips, Plextor do come close on some points but fail on others. Benq/PHilips support seems to be much more open to suggestions as the competitions. SO if you got some points about mayor issues contact them about it and they will see what they can fix.


Also basic R&D is not really the problem. Marketing and management and economics are.
And while the're aware of a lot of things they still seem to be incapable of fixing things.

They've even resorted to selling rebadged LiteOn CE DVD recorders (and some more from an unknown Korean outfit) due to their inability to be competitively-priced and reliable at the same time. This, from the main developer of one of the competing DVD writing formats? Please.

So what do big japanese compannies like SONY and Pioneer and Toshiba and many other japanese compannies do like I allready posted above. So why may Philips not do what a large part of the japanese compannies does ?
I know that when Philips is launching some cheap ass product you get junk. Trust me I owned a Philips 3610 (Philips attempt to make a very cheap cd-writer costing just the half of the competition.) However when the prices are normal quality is ok. Higher then normal then build (most times this means that you got some brand new stuff) quality is better as ok.

In the meantime though, so what if Benq are producing a decent drive. If some nasty little backwater Chinese company was to start making Pioneers under licence, they'd be making good drives as well, but it doesn't alter the fact that they wouldn't have a clue how to make a decent unit if Pioneer hadn't got involved.

Bad example since Benq/Acer also makes drives for Pioneer allready.

So if you looked arround you would know that all drive have issues.
Really. For each weakness you put up for Benq/Philips I can give you back some other one on the companny you really like and it doesn't matter if it's Plextor or Pioneer or Mashushite or LG or Toshiba or NEC.
Still no one can make the perfect drive. It's like I said some do get close on some fronts.

[Scour]

Benq/ACER also from Pioneer.

BTC from TEAC

BTC and Teac? The newer Teac-drives are from Liteon, Pioneer or Ultima, I think?

Which Pioneer drives is made by Benq?

[RJW]

Will have to look up but Pioneers DVD-roms are Acer/Benq made these days and also there are version of the Pioneer 106D (Which orriginally had a slightly differnt firmware ) Some of the Pioneer 107D were produced at Benq. 108 and 109 seem to be made by Pioneer only. That might be because pioneer own popularity is getting smaller. The 106/107 deal was done because Pioneer could sell more drives as they could produce themselves at the time. ABout the specific model I think digitimes mentioned about it a few weeks ago (probally halfway January). Cdfreaks, Cdrlabs and cdrinfo reported about that one.

Teac does a lot of busines with different manufacturers. It's more like each model is from a different source. I do have to say that the name Lite On keeps comming back. I chose this old combination (Was I think the 48x burner) to put some taiwanese brand with a not so good reputation in combination with a japanese brand with a excellent reputation.

Let me say this:
These days compannies can work on one level very close together why on another level they are each other biggest competition and can't stand each other.