Linux installation help (Ubuntu Linux distribution)

[dodecahedron]

i wish the tech people at Siig would learn english.
this is not the first time, but this time really:

I would like to connect a Hard Drive (Maxtor, 160GB, ATA133) to the
USB2.0+1394+UltraATA133 RAID card and use it to install Linux on this
hard drive (just Linux on that hard drive).
1 .Do I need any drivers in order to use this card under Linux?
2. Can you tell me if the Linux installer will recognize the card (and
hard drive on it)? Specifially, I'm going to install Debian Linux 3.1
(Sarge) - the latest stable Debian Linux release.
3. Can I use 2 drives on the Siig card (say 1 on each channel) one of
which will be for Linux, the other Windows ?

Noet: I want to use the card just as an ATA Controller card - no
intention of using the RAID functionality.

Hello,
Unfortunately, the version of LINUX that you use does not
support LINUX. Unless, if there is a patch somewhere that I did
not know.
Please check with LINUX at this time.

very informative reply. answered all of my questions!

Please check with LINUX at this time.
yeah. does anyone have his phone number so i can check with him?
the version of LINUX that you use does not support LINUX
darn...i should let LINUX know of this. i'm sure he would be quite upset.

[dolphinius_rex]

hrm... maybe he was drunk when he wrote that?

[socheat]

Unofficial SIIG Linux tech support here... Seriously, what's the model #? I've installed a few Siig cards in Linux before. Most of the time it just uses the 'siimage' driver.

I would like to connect a Hard Drive (Maxtor, 160GB, ATA133) to the
USB2.0+1394+UltraATA133 RAID card and use it to install Linux on this
hard drive (just Linux on that hard drive).
1 .Do I need any drivers in order to use this card under Linux?

Like I said, 'siimage'. If you already have Debian installed, depending on how much you've modified the kernel, it should just autoload the module for you at boot time. I know Ubuntu does (based off of Debian). Check to see it's loaded by typing lsmod and grepping for siimage as root. But, if you're doing a fresh install, this is irrelevant.

2. Can you tell me if the Linux installer will recognize the card (and
hard drive on it)? Specifially, I'm going to install Debian Linux 3.1
(Sarge) - the latest stable Debian Linux release.

Are you using this as a desktop machine? If so, I'd like to recommend Ubuntu again. It's structure is the same, but it seems to be less stagnant than Debian lately. Regardless, both the latest versions of Debian installer and Ubuntu installer should detect the card and be available for you during the installer. The only problem I can see is that Ubuntu installs the Grub bootloader by default, instead of LILO, and Grub isn't so smart with non-onboard IDE controllers. I wasn't able to boot up my install of Ubuntu when I let it install Grub by default. The motherboard I have has an onboard SIIG controller.

3. Can I use 2 drives on the Siig card (say 1 on each channel) one of
which will be for Linux, the other Windows ?

Depends on how much work you're willing to do. You can install Linux on one drive, and Windows on the other... though you might need to do the Windows install with the drive on the primary on-board IDE (not sure, since I'm not a Windows expert). Then you'll need a bootloader, either LILO or some "Windows" bootloader.[/quote]

Let me know if you need any more help. Good luck!

[dodecahedron]

hi Socheat.

first of all, thanks in advance.

the card i have is called USB2.0+1394+UltraATA133 RAID. it's a combo card.
http://www.siig.com/product.asp?catid=103&pid=300

what i'm interested in is installing Linux.
(note: i'm not adding the card to an existing Linux installation).

it's going to be Debian - i'm not going to spend time on donwloading lots of more ISOs, i've had it with that.
unless you convince me that i only need to download one or two CD ISOs.

what i would like to do is in the following order of preference:
1. install Linux on a SATA hard drive connected to the motherboard's on-board SATA-RAID controller, Silicon Image SiI 3112.
2. if that doesn't work, install on a Parallel ATA hard drive connected to the above Siig card.
3. if all else fails, install on the Parallel ATA HD connected to the motherboard's controller.

do you know if the Linux (Debian?) installer recognizes these (motherboard SATA, Siig card ATA) controllers?

bottom line:
i have a dedicated hard drive for Linux (don't want to mess with dual-booting from the same HD).
what i need at the end of the day is:

• a working desktop (what do you recommend? KDE or Gnome?)
• XEmacs
• LaTeX
• (optional) internet connectivity using my Samsung ADSL modem connected to a NIC card. either the motherboard built-in NICs or a PCI Intel card

that's it.

since this system is also my windows system and i need both, which do you recommend - LILO or Grub ?

any advice appreciated

[socheat]

hi Socheat.

first of all, thanks in advance.

the card i have is called USB2.0+1394+UltraATA133 RAID. it's a combo card.
http://www.siig.com/product.asp?catid=103&pid=300

Hmmm... never used that one before.

it's going to be Debian - i'm not going to spend time on donwloading lots of more ISOs, i've had it with that.
unless you convince me that i only need to download one or two CD ISOs.

I used Debian for years, the unstable branch, because the stable branch just moved too slow. Debian just released their newest stable branch a couple months ago, the last stable released almost 2 years before that.

I recently switched all my boxes (servers, desktops, laptop) from Debian to Ubuntu. Ubuntu takes a snapshot of the latest Debian unstable branch, and they work on that until it's release ready. They also release every 6 months, so you aren't too far behind on the latest packages. For example, Debian stable has Gnome 2.8, whereas Ubuntu has Gnome 2.10. Although, Debian unstable has Gnome 2.10 as well, but having used Debian unstable for a long time, things break quite often, as it's their testing ground for new development.

Also, similar to the Mozilla foundation, there's an actual company behind Ubuntu, with funding and everything. If you do go w/ Ubuntu, it's only one ISO to download. They can also ship you install CD's (for free!).

All in all, I think Ubuntu is a more polished version of Debian, tailored to the desktop/gui user. When I install Debian, I have to do a little bit of configuring and install a couple extra packages to get a working desktop. With Ubuntu, after the install is done, everything's already configured. They added a lot more front-end apps, so you don't have to configure things from a terminal if you don't want to. You could make Debian feel just like Ubuntu by installing all the right packages and configuring your menus, etc. But that's just more work.

Just my opinion. Used both, love both.

what i would like to do is in the following order of preference:
1. install Linux on a SATA hard drive connected to the motherboard's on-board SATA-RAID controller, Silicon Image SiI 3112.
2. if that doesn't work, install on a Parallel ATA hard drive connected to the above Siig card.
3. if all else fails, install on the Parallel ATA HD connected to the motherboard's controller.

do you know if the Linux (Debian?) installer recognizes these (motherboard SATA, Siig card ATA) controllers?

Option 1 - definitely possible. Two of my computers have onboard SATA with the SII3112 chip. It uses the 'sata_sil' driver. Ubuntu detected it during the install, and I was able to install straight to the SATA drive. Haven't done a SATA install in Debian, but I've installed to onboard RAID (HPT372) before, and that worked fine in Debian as well.

Option 2 - only way to know for sure is to put it in and try. I'm guessing it will work to some extent.

what i need at the end of the day is:

• a working desktop (what do you recommend? KDE or Gnome?)
• XEmacs
• LaTeX
• (optional) internet connectivity using my Samsung ADSL modem connected to a NIC card. either the motherboard built-in NICs or a PCI Intel card

that's it.

I personally use Gnome, although some say it's starting to get bloated. Some people say the same about KDE. It does seem though, that KDE often comes out with newer/cooler features first. I personally don't like the way KDE looks. Ubuntu uses Gnome, but KUbuntu uses KDE.

Internet connectivity shouldn't be a problem in either Debian or Ubuntu. The installers will automatically set up your system to run on DHCP. Ubuntu has a Networking app that lets you further configure your network card if you want (once install is complete). Debian does too (obviously), but you'd need to install it first, I think.

since this system is also my windows system and i need both, which do you recommend - LILO or Grub ?

I only recently switched to Grub, so I don't really know how to configure it yet. I know it's possible with LILO because I have that exact setup on my laptop and one of my desktops (Linux on one hard drive, Windows on another). Grub is supposed to be really nice, in that if you screw up the configuration, you can reconfigure it right there. With LILO, you configure it, reboot, hope it works. If it doesn't, you'll need to either boot an old configuration (that you left as an option in the config file), or pull out a boot or rescue disk.

I think w/ Debian and definitely Ubuntu, you'll have to use the 'expert' install option to be able to tell it to install LILO and NOT to install Grub.

Hope that helps.

[dodecahedron]

first of all, thanks for the lengthy and informative reply.

Debian just released their newest stable branch a couple months ago, the last stable released almost 2 years before that.

i downloaded 3.1 rev 0a "Sarge".
is that the last stable release you were talking about? it's the latest stable as far as i know, but i didn't know it's only 2 months old!

If you do go w/ Ubuntu, it's only one ISO to download. They can also ship you install CD's (for free!).

have a URL for me (can't find on http://www.linuxiso.org )
you make a very convincing case for Ubuntu.
edit: scratch that. found it. strange it's not on linuxiso.org.
are you using the 5.04 version ?

Two of my computers have onboard SATA with the SII3112 chip. It uses the 'sata_sil' driver. Ubuntu detected it during the install, and I was able to install straight to the SATA drive. Haven't done a SATA install in Debian, but I've installed to onboard RAID (HPT372) before, and that worked fine in Debian as well.

what's this 'sata_sil' driver ? is it something i need to install or does it come with the distribution? the installer? the kernel ? (you can see i haven't a clue!)

what i need at the end of the day is:

• a working desktop (what do you recommend? KDE or Gnome?)
• XEmacs
• LaTeX
• (optional) internet connectivity using my Samsung ADSL modem connected to a NIC card. either the motherboard built-in NICs or a PCI Intel card

that's it.

I personally use Gnome, although some say it's starting to get bloated. Some people say the same about KDE. It does seem though, that KDE often comes out with newer/cooler features first. I personally don't like the way KDE looks. Ubuntu uses Gnome, but KUbuntu uses KDE.

i don't really care if it's KDE or Gnome.
when i've used linux (GUI version) a few years ago, i seem to recall having like Gnome better...but i really haven't used it a log. CLI/XTERM all the way...

can you tell me if Debian or Ubuntu have the apps i need: XEmacs and LaTeX?

i think i'll try to use Grub, sounds simpler.

thanks

[socheat]

i downloaded 3.1 rev 0a "Sarge".
is that the last stable release you were talking about? it's the latest stable as far as i know, but i didn't know it's only 2 months old!

Yup, that's the latest Debian stable release.

are you using the 5.04 version ?

Yup.

what's this 'sata_sil' driver ? is it something i need to install or does it come with the distribution? the installer? the kernel ? (you can see i haven't a clue!)

It's included in the kernel as a module. Debian and Ubuntu should load it automatically at boot time.

can you tell me if Debian or Ubuntu have the apps i need: XEmacs and LaTeX?

Yup, but you'll need to install them yourself. I can show you how after you get the distro installed.

Lemme know how you like Grub. I really should figure out how to use it one of these days.

[dodecahedron]

downloading Ubuntu install CD as we speak (38:52 minutes remaining )

but what i'm really concerned about it internet connectivity.
accoring to the Debian Installation guide, PPPoE isn't officially supported (even though the necessary files are there) and AFAIK this is the protocol used by the ISP. i'm on ADSL. (whenever i dialup i see a small windows message saying PPPoE).
just to be on the safe side i d/l the first 7 of the 14 Debian installation CDs, so i won't have to update from the net for my XEmacs and LaTeX....

does Ubuntu also have a nice package-management system like Debian ? in the installation guide and FAQ Debian congratulate themselves a lot about the package management system - "we are the best".

i think i'll try Ubuntu first and see how it works. if not i'll try Debian 3.1r0a.

thanks again for all your help.

[socheat]

So, you're going to have the DSL modem connect directly to your computer, rather than through a router? I haven't set that up in a while, and when I did, I was using Debian, and after it had already been installed. You'll want to run 'pppoeconf' as root as soon as the install is done. Or, you could install 'webmin' and the 'webmin-adsl' module, which lets you configure ppoe through a web interface.

Apparently, if you choose the expert install of Ubuntu, you should be able to setup ADSL/PPPoE during the install... but that might put you in over your head on other install options...

Since Ubuntu is based off of Debian, it uses all the same back-end package management tools: dpkg and apt. There's a nice GUI called 'synaptic' that Ubuntu automatically installs. Again, think of Ubuntu as a more refined version of Debian. All the core stuff is the same, it just tries to make it easier to get up and running and to use.

Here are a few sites that are going to be helpful:

http://ubuntuguide.org
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/

[wicked1]

I agree about ubuntu. I tried debian and ubuntu and ubuntu is alot nicer. They sent me 12 install cd's for i6x86, 2 for Powerr PC, 2 for amd 64 all for free. I love the live cd that came with it.Every computer I have put that cd onto it has worked no tweaking required. I myself am a Mandrake fan however. I run Mandriva 2005 LE w/ KDE 3.4.2 Only reason I even have windows anymore is for Nero Toolkit.

[dodecahedron]

OK i installed Ubuntu.
it went like a breeze.
(btw used debconf/priority=medium).
detected the ATA hard drive as well as the SATA hard drive (on the motherboard SATA RAID controller) as a SCSI drive.
installed on the SATA drive.

it detected both of the motherboard built-in NIC cards (Nvidia + 3Com).

the only glitch was when trying to detect more repositories (for updates and security fixes), i'd thought it had hung. just took quite a while (and didn't find anything).

used Grub.

everything is OK now and Ubuntu is running and so is Windows.

where i'm stuck is updating using apt, synaptic etc.
used pppoeconf but that didn't seem to do much. i don't have an internet connection and don't know how to get it.
tried using apt-setup, synaptic but they're not too intuitive.

what's annoying is that both during the installation procedure, and in synaptic, it says that the CD in the drive is not a Ubuntu CD. wtf ? it's the Ubuntu installation CD!

so now i'm stuck. Linux is running fine but i don't have XEmacs or LaTeX and can't see how i'm going to get them.

i'm seriously thinking of installing Debian, since i have the first 7 out of 14 ISOs which probably have what i need on them without net access.
i just hope that the Debian installer will be as smooth and simple like the Ubuntu one. since you say it's only been released 2 month ago (actually that makes it more recent than Ubuntu 5.04) i hope it too will detect all my hardware fine like the Ubuntu installer.

question: how do i install Debian "over" Ubuntu?
simply run the installer?
or should i low-level format the HD first?
or is that bad? will low-level formatting erase the MBR and screw my Windows?
incidentally, where is the MBR located? on the (old) Windows HD or the newer Linux SATA HD ?

[dodecahedron]

i have a D-Link router model DI-604.
http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=62

would that help get internet connectivity in Linux?
haven't installed it yet since i don't have the time to dick around with it in Windows, configure it etc. my Windows is working fine with the computer conneceted directly to the Samsung ADSL modem, so i keep putting it off.

[dodecahedron]

OK i've installed Debin over Ubuntu.
it went pretty smooth. installer nearly identical.
but it asked more questions, especially in the part where it configures some of the default packages.
i was worried that doing this might mess up the MBR and ruin my Windows, but no all's fine and now i haev Debian+WinXP.

i can see why you say Ubuntu is more "polished", but not having used Linux for some 6 years, and then only in CLI mode (no GUI) it doesn't matter much to me.

i'm still having problems with setting up PPPoE and using apt,synaptic. still no LaTeX

Socheat, do you know of Ubuntu will recognize (in apt-setup) Debian CDs? i think the packages are the same, no? maybe newer but basically the same.

[socheat]

i have a D-Link router model DI-604.
http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=62

would that help get internet connectivity in Linux?
haven't installed it yet since i don't have the time to dick around with it in Windows, configure it etc. my Windows is working fine with the computer conneceted directly to the Samsung ADSL modem, so i keep putting it off.

That most definitely would help. Once you get the router setup, everything else should work. Ubuntu should already be set to DHCP, so you'll just need to plug in the computer to the router, and reboot. Or, you can type (as root) on the command line: /etc/init.d/networking restart

If it's not set to DHCP, you can go to System -> Administration -> Networking. Type in your current user's password (not the root password). Then, choose the ethernet device that is connected to the router, and click Properties. In the dropdown, choose DHCP if it's not already selected. You can either reboot, or I think you can deactivate and then reactivate the device. Or, you could type that init.d command

Once you're on the internet, you should be able to just apt-get install xemacs and latex... although, those *should* already be in the install CD. Did you download the full 700MB iso? Maybe something got screwed up in your /etc/apt/sources.list. When you're internet is working, go here:

http://ubuntuguide.org/#extrarepositories

That'll add all the different repositories to your sources.list file. I'd also comment out any lines regarding the cdrom drive. Then give synaptic another whirl ( System -> Administration -> Synaptic Package Manager ). Go to Edit -> Reload Package Information. This will update your cache of packages. Now, you can search for whatever packages you want and mark them for installation. I'd also click "Mark All Upgrades" as well, choose the "Smart Upgrade" option. Once you've chosen all your packages for installation, click Apply.

I'm not sure where Ubuntu puts the MBR by default. I think it's probably at the beginning of Ubuntu's root partition (not the beginning of the drive).

[socheat]

OK i've installed Debin over Ubuntu.
it went pretty smooth. installer nearly identical.
but it asked more questions, especially in the part where it configures some of the default packages.
i was worried that doing this might mess up the MBR and ruin my Windows, but no all's fine and now i haev Debian+WinXP.

Shoot, wish I had replied earlier.

Socheat, do you know of Ubuntu will recognize (in apt-setup) Debian CDs? i think the packages are the same, no? maybe newer but basically the same.

No, I don't think Ubuntu's apt-setup will accept Debian CD's. They have completely different repositories. In general though, stock Debian packages will work in Ubuntu. But, if there's a package of app X in Ubuntu and in Debian, it's safer to use the Ubuntu version.

Your best bet is to get that thing on the internet. All my computers go through a router of some sort, and that makes installing Ubuntu a breeze. I have successfully configured PPPoE before, but it was a long time ago, and all via the command line. I'm suprised there isn't a GUI for it yet...

[dodecahedron]

Shoot, wish I had replied earlier.

don't worry about it...i was just about to re-install Ubuntu over Debian
to see if Ubuntu would take Debian's installation CDs as repositories.
i have Debian 3.1rev0a binaries 1-6, and by looking into the .iso files i can see that xemacs is in binaries 2-3 and latex (??? i think there's no 'latex' there's 'latex-XXX' what's that?) is on binaries 2-6 more or less.
but you're saying it won't work.

i'm pretty sure Ubuntu doesn't have xemacs and latex on the install CD. it's 586MB and apparently these apps aren't as popular as i'd thought (at least not un Ubuntu).
http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_inst
the first mention of latex is 'latex-xft-fonts' whatever that is, number 1231 on the popularity list.
xemacs21 is #2518.

[dodecahedron]

OK so this got me to finally take out that router out of the box and try to install it. <it's been sitting in the box for a few months now >
since it was purchased in the US i need a 220v to 110v transformer for the router's power adapter.
well, 1 minute into the installation procedure the transformer croaks on me with a crackle and a whiff of bad smell.
so no router for me right now.

[socheat]

Looks like you're right, the Ubuntu install CD only has emacs (CLI) on it.

I still say your best bet is getting the router set up and getting Ubuntu/Debian on the internet. All your repository issues would be solved.

If you really don't want to get on the internet, you could use the debian discs but you wouldn't set it up as an apt source. What you would do is put the disc and find the xemacs deb package. Then, you can copy it to your hard drive (but you don't have to). Then, as root type:

dpkg -i <path/to/xemacs/file/xmacsfilename.deb>

That will install it.

As for latex, apparently it's a virtual package (think of it as a shortcut/alias). Meaning, you can type:

Code: Select all

apt-get install latex

And you'll see this message:

Code: Select all

Note, selecting tetex-bin instead of latex

And tetex-bin will provide the files you need, and that will get installed instead.

[socheat]

OK so this got me to finally take out that router out of the box and try to install it. <it's been sitting in the box for a few months now >
since it was purchased in the US i need a 220v to 110v transformer for the router's power adapter.
well, 1 minute into the installation procedure the transformer croaks on me with a crackle and a whiff of bad smell.
so no router for me right now.

[dodecahedron]

OK so this got me to finally take out that router out of the box and try to install it. <it's been sitting in the box for a few months now >
since it was purchased in the US i need a 220v to 110v transformer for the router's power adapter.
well, 1 minute into the installation procedure the transformer croaks on me with a crackle and a whiff of bad smell.
so no router for me right now.

LOL just how i feel!
well, i hope it's just the transformer that died, and that it didn't kill the router.

the upside of the story - i got around to taking the router out of the box and reading the installation guide.
you can ask my friend in the US who's buying stuff for me. some of the stuff i've had waiting more that a year before i got around to telling him to send it to me! LOL

back on topic: i'll probably go out now and buy a new transformer. then set up the router in Windows. then i'll re-install Ubuntu over Debian and see how things go.
as soon as i've done all that i'll report here, plus any questions if i get stuck again.
thanks again for your help, you're great!

[dodecahedron]

damn!
i went and bought a new 220v->110v transformer, and now it appears that the D-Link's power adapter (110vAC->5vDC) is toast.
luckily, i had in the same package (that's sitting months unopened) also a D-Link 4-port USB2.0 hub. and they use an identical power adapter! so now i do have a working (and connected and set up) router but no hub

[dodecahedron]

Looks like you're right, the Ubuntu install CD only has emacs (CLI) on it.

yep.
but the names are misleading.
Emacs (the original one) also works with X, mouse etc.
i just like XEmacs (which claims to be better in terms of X, graphics etc) since that's what i've always used and gotten used to.

incidentally, where is the MBR located? on the (old) Windows HD or the newer Linux SATA HD ?

I'm not sure where Ubuntu puts the MBR by default. I think it's probably at the beginning of Ubuntu's root partition (not the beginning of the drive).

you're probably right.
i removed the SATA hard drive on which Linux (Debian) is installed, and Grub fails on boot, i can't get into Windows.
which raises the question - how do you "uninstall" Linux and get back a booting Windows system?
but i don't care about that now...

[socheat]

You have Windows installed on a completely different drive right? If so, it's just a matter of telling your BIOS to boot that drive instead.

[dodecahedron]

i dunno.
when booting, the main boot screen just shows the ATA hard drives on the motherboard controller (right now there's just one, the IBM with WinXP on it).
after that it shows the SataRAID BIOS screen and shows the SATA drive.
however inside BIOS, boot order, the options are HDD0-HDD3, which i assumed are the ATA hard drives (mobo controller). doesn't appear that i can choose the SATA hard drive.
unless the SCSI option is the SATA ???

and when i removed the SATA Linux drive and remained with just the ATA WinXP drive (and got the Grub error message) i'm sure the BIOS boot order was the same as before: boot option 1 - HDD0, all others disabled (that's the way it's always, except when i'm messing with boot CDs or floppies. then i change it back to just HDD0).

maybe i should upgrade motherboard BIOS, i know on some Asus boards later BIOS revisions enabled choosing the boot drive between ATA and SATA.

[socheat]

So, when you remove the SATA hard drive w/ Linux on it, you still get a Grub boot error? That means Ubuntu installed the MBR on your Windows drive. Not a big deal, just do the fdisk thing. That'll reset the MBR, and allow Windows to boot.

When you install Ubuntu the next time, I suggest disconnecting the power to the Windows drive, so that the installer doesn't see it and doesn't try to write the MBR there.